Larry

Hey Sue,

Is sarcasm the most effective way to communicate on this board?


Just curious.

lunachick

Actually, Larry - there are many people here who also do not mince words and I have respect for them. Even if their views are not aligned with my own.

Your views, however, simply sound like the grunts of one barbarian calling others barbarians. Therein lies your irony.

Have you put forward anything other than what equates to "dirty bloody Arabs! Bomb the shit outta them till they get with the program!" If you have, I've yet to see it.

And tell me - in what way is the USA so much more civilised? I'd also be interested to know your definition of civilisation. Does it have anything to do with shopping and fast food, by any chance? Sophisticated weaponry? Slick ways of stealing on a grand scale? The clothes you wear? What, exactly?

Also, most of the people in Iraq are currently very poor. They have been living under a sociopathic despot. Many "civilised" countries in Old Europe have been in this situation, too. It doesn't make "the people" any less human, or civilised - just the regime. Italy, Germany and Russia are cases in point.

Larry

It's all good, lunachick.

I have been as frustrated by all that is going on now, as you or anyone else. Some times I do regress to the "Fuck 'em All!!" attitude. I know this is not the way to go about it, and I apologize for coming off as a Neanderthal. (Talk about your irony...right?)

In any case, I do respect and understand your point of view, and I really don't want to allienate you from in-depth discussions. Again, please forgive my crude "Fuck 'em all" approach.

I have done studies in the various cultural anthropology of Middle East countries, and have followed the developement of the various political parties there. I have found that the Muslims beliefs and systems, are as diverse as the many Arab countries. A large percentage of Westerners have only recently been made aware of the fact that Islam is not a monolithic religion. Most Westerners don't even know the difference between Sunni and Shia. And, these are only two of the differing Islamic belief systems.

In an attempt to unify the Arab Nations, who had been for years colonialized, groups like the Ba'ath Party and later, the National Progressive Front were formed. This attempt to unify, even though it was secular in nature, did more harm than good, especially with the 'Fundamentalist' states, who believe that religion and politics are inseperable. This is where the Palisinians started to regain power, and Israel thrown into the mix, made for one huge cluster-fuck of warring states.

There are three major political ideologies among the Arab states.

1. Secularism - Keeps religious leaders out of running the government.....There is only a handfull of Arab states that fall under this category.

2. Fundamentalism - Believe in absolute religious and political unity.

3. Modernism - This is the middle ground between the above extremes. Although, religion is an influencing factor in political policies.

So, in all but a few, religion plays a roll in politics. And this is why we see so much turmoil, wars, land-grabs, ethnic cleansings and border disputes in that region. And, today's conflict is but a fart in a whirlpool, compared to the history in that region. And it is mostly the result of warring Islamic factions.

Larry

Added note -

You may find the answer to your question, in something you stated.

When, a country has a population that is mostly poor, what does that tell you of that country?

Larry

Civilize:

1 : to cause to develop out of a primitive state; especially : to bring to a technically advanced and rationally ordered stage of cultural development


It is in this context I refer to civilized.

Sue Sponte

In light of the following from you:

Sarcasm seemed as good a manner of "discussion" as any.

One of your subsequent posts was an intelligent, unoffensive discussion which noted some interesting points. Compare that with the above quote.

You will find on these boards that such posts will not draw much support, as they are substantively lacking and represent the mindless pratter many find so disturbing about the level of political debate these days. In these forums, you will be challenged to support your position, not merely state it and then resort to name-calling.

Pretty simple, really. Thoughtful, respectful posts will result in the opportunity to learn from a number of intelligent people with differing viewpoints, if you are genuinely interested in considering what they have to say. Posts short of that will be treated in like fashion.

Larry

Fair enough.

beyelzu

so who is on that list of people who dont mince words around here that you respect?


Just curious.