weltschmerz

Hello,

Why is my statement incorrect that all men know that God exists? A part of my belief system is that God has made His existence known (Romans 1) and those that deny that God exists have suppressed this truth in some manner, i.e. no true atheists. The evidence offered for this claim is that the non-believer lives on what is called borrowed capital. Or to put it another way, the atheist lives on values that their worldview and outlook can't properly account (ground) for.


If this is the case (that all men know that God exists), then would you agree that neither atheism or agnosticism has a presumption?

Thanks,

~ Alexander

weltschmerz

Hello,

You say that if God exists then there should be some method(s) by which we can verify this. What method(s) are you speaking about specifically?

Thanks,

~ Alexander

weltschmerz

Hello,

In what way is my statement "unsatisfactory" by virtue of it's circularity? I am pretty sure that all worldviews are ultimately circular and that all worldviews are taken as a matter of faith. I don't believe, however, that all faiths are equal.

Thanks,

~ Alexander

ughaibu

You assume creation and verify the creator by that assumption.
Advice: indicate to whom you're replying.

Bboyneko

Agnostics are just atheist who are too scared to admit it or too lazy to think about it.

Koyaanisqatsi

Thank you for telling us what you believe. I believe our entire universe is contained in the tear of a small dog name "Sparky" in an alternate dimension that is in turn contained in a small box on Queen Elizabeth's nighttable.

Of what relevance is telling us what you believe?

Koyaanisqatsi

Try it one more time correctly: a (meaning "without") theism (meaning: "a belief in a god or gods"), thus, atheism: without a belief in a god or gods.

You are not born with beliefs; you form them (and/or, in the case of cults, they are formed for you).

Koyaanisqatsi

It would help if you would let us know who you're asking (and there is no need to say "hello" and "thanks" and sign off and the like), but I explained why everyone is born atheist. Necessarily so.

You can't be born with a belief; they have to be formed (or indoctrinated).

Koyaanisqatsi

Why do you ask?

Selsaral

Well I don't care for this argument for many reasons. The first is that it is fundamentally a god-of-the-gaps argument. That is, you can't conceive of how humans might be altruistic or moral without a God, therefore you assume a God must exist to provide those things.

The second reason is that there are reasons for why humans (and atheists) act moral or altruistic, and it has everything to do with biology and evolution (science), and nothing to do with God.

The third reason is that this kind of argument can be used to defend absurd things. For example, I could claim that only Zeus can account for humans being kind to each other. That's just as credible as claiming that only God can account for that (that is, not credible in any way). It's an argument by pure assertion.


I'd answer by saying that only because of Zeus can you post on internet forums. Because you just posted on an internet forum, you are therefore a Hellenist and no longer a Christian because you believe that Zeus exists.

Your assertion that 'all men know that God exists' is just as empty as 'only Zeus can account for internet posting'.