Albion

Why would an atheist even want to continue work as a C of E clergyman? I mean, heresy trials sound a bit heavy-handed, but I'm wondering how well the idea of having an atheist vicar goes over with congregations. The last thing the church needs is more accusations of hypocricy.

Edited to explain that despite the location, I'm also British.

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: Albion ]</p>

DMB

In my experience there is a problem for some vicars. They start off believing all the orthodox stuff, but the more they think about it the more doubts they have. But what do you do when you are 48 with a wife and family to support and your only source of income depends on your continuing to promote xian doctrine? I really feel sorry for people in this position.

We have on these boards some members who have bravely faced up to the contradictions of their position and left their church. Not everyone has that sort of courage.

Zippy

I thought the new chappy who's running the whole COE thing was a nice liberal chap? Am I mistaken?

missus_gumby

Got to agree with DMB here. Plus don't forget many CofE ministers get a free house with the job.

Zippy: I don't think the new CofE head honcho has been chosen by the Catholic Prime Minister (go figure) yet. I could be mistaken though.

Martin

{Edited to add} There was a news story recently in the British press about a Catholic priest in Ireland who "came out" and admitted he had not believed in god for the last 30 years! The Irish church went ballistic.

Also, Richard Dawkins and Professor A C Grayling (the brilliant British atheist philosopher) were on TV, last night. Anyone catch it?

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: missus_gumby ]</p>

Albion

What programme? What were they discussing? Is there a transcript anywhere? Some of us live in exile, you know.

Albion

What programme? What were they discussing? Is there a transcript anywhere? Some of us live in exile, you know.

Tom Sawyer

I think that the CofE has a right to say that if you want to work for us, you have to publicly have certain positions.

If a salesman for Coca Cola was going around telling people they should drink Pepsi, the company would have a legitimate issue with his behaviour. His job is to sell a product and even if he doesn't believe in that product, he's still being paid to sell it. If he doesn't want to do so, it's a free country and he can find new work.

Relating that analogy to the preacher, he's being paid to sell the vision of the CofE, not his own personal vision. If he doesn't agree with it, that's fine, but if he wants to continue taking a salary from the CofE, he has to do the job he's being paid for. If he wants to spend his time promoting his own personal philosophy, he can join a Unitarian church, where there isn't really a set group of beliefs.

DMB

I don't think there are many Unitarian churches these days in the UK.

missus_gumby

To be honest, it was late at night. I had fallen asleep and woke up several minutes into the program. I can't remember what it was called, but it was a Radio 4 "Moral maze" type effort. I can't find any mention of it on the web, but will look out for the name of the programme next Sunday. Oddly enough, Dawkins didn't seem to be on good form, maybe because he wasn't in a top notch argument. I'll try and stay awake next Sunday!

Martin

missus_gumby

Peteyh, good point. However, the church authorities are proposing a little bit of extra icing on the cake in addition to simply firing any atheist clergy they find. It's one thing to fire the Coke employee who promotes Pepsi, but another thing entirely to advocate punishment as well.

Martin