Philosoft

Then, by virtue of chaos theory, God cannot ensure that his will obtains; he can't instantiate any plan because his desire to ensure a single outcome would involve determining literally millions of causally related actions.
Perhaps not, but God certainly has the ability to prevent the crash, does he not? Christianity holds that he has performed many miracles in the past. Presumably, his allowing the plane to crash is somehow desirable, else he would have miracled it otherwise.

Infidelettante

Let's go over this again. God told Adam not to eat from TTOTKOGAE. God did not tell Eve that so we presume that Adam told her. In any event she knew the drill when the serpent came around. Can we agree that TKOGAE is the power to make ones own decisions, to choose? If not please let me know. To recap: Adam, Eve, Fruit, Good, Evil, Choice.

Now let us agree that if TFOTTOTKOGAE were to be eaten the following would result; [1] Eyes would be opened [2] Would be as gods [3] would know good and evil [4] would not die. You will of course note that this list was obtained from the serpent in Gen. 3: 4,5. God has told the first couple only that they will die if they eat of TFOTTOTKOGAE a curious bit of omnifibbery as it is clear the two did not die. Recap: Fruit, eat, eyes, as gods, good-evil, alive, serpent, God lies.

The serpent tells Eve what God left out. Eve decides to eat TFOTTOTKOGAE showing a propensity for making up her own mind before she even touches TFOTTOTKOGAE which, I think we can all agree, was not the way God said it was supposed to happen but we have also seen that he doesn't always tell the truth so who knows what he meant. Recap: Serpent, truth, Eve, Choise, God, Confused.

Eve tastes the fruit and offers it to Adam. Now the lack of planning on Gods part once again results in surprises for God which is real odd, don't you think? Adam looks at Eve and to him she looks like a god. Get it? She ate TFOTTOTKOGAE and she is now like a god. So poor Adam, dope that he was ate TFOTTOTKOGAE. What else could he do? She was a friggin GOD for crying out loud. There is no sin here unless you want to pin some on God but to be fair let us agree he was just stupid.
So God thinks about the TOEL and throws them out and then curses them for good measure and all the rest of us along with them just bcause he can do things like that, he's God. Recap: Eat fruit, Eve=god, Adam eats, God surprised, God boots, curse, curse, curse the end. Or is it?

JT

Jobar

You know, I've often wondered why an omnipotent, loving God would make a creation 'in his own image' without the knowledge of what is good. So he makes man to praise him, and to commune with him; and yet He makes him unwise enough to disobey the sole warning given to him by his Creator???
[sarcasm]
Why do you suppose this is? My guesses are either 1. God made Adam wise, but neglected to give the same wisdom to Eve; or 2. God works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform. [/sarcasm]

beoba

Woh, what?

Badfish

How can they follow it? Because it is written. It isn't a theist's claim, it is a claim of the bible.

No one can know exactly what God is made up of, the bible doesn't describe his physical appearance, other than to say he is magnificent and glorious.

beoba

Except for the whole "man created in his image" thing.

Badfish

Well seeing that Jesus came in the flesh, looking humanlike, it would be safe to presume, given that God exists, that we must resemble him in some way.

Our emotions apparently resemble his.

I wonder if he has eyebrows and stuff....

Fiach

There are two universes, the one we know which is the Universe of matter-energy that consists of galaxies, stars, planets, continents, oceans, living beings and us.

Many people also believe in a Magic Universe where the rules are what you make them. It contains God's, demons, angels, miracles/magic, and rules of logic or reason do not apply, it is not natureal but supernatural/unnatural.

All Christians believe in both universes. Atheists only believe in the matter-energy universe of natue. All that exists is natural.

A few Christians spend too much time in the Magical Universe, lose contact with reality and reason, and we call that psychosis.

In the real universe of matter-energy, we must define things as far as we have data. In the Magic Universe we can define an imaginary thing any why we wish. In the Magic Universe, Christians have created a God in man's ow image and likeness. Since this hypothetical god is invisible and unprovable, Christians can give him any characteristics they wish.

But God's image reflecting mankind is not his physical appearance. No Christian believes that. What they are saying is that God is anthropomorphic in personality, not physically. God is cruel, vindictive, unjust, jealous, insecure despite omnipotence, capricious, narcissistic, unforgiving and forgiving, creating Heaven for a small few and Hell for most humans. He has temper tantrums, kills without regret, sends plagues, sends suffering, causes childhood brain tumours because of original sin. In short, God has all of mankinds worst traits of personality. He is a severe sociopath and psychopath. This shows us what kind of men invented him, as their alter-ego.

Fiach

beoba

Only Christians can become psychotic?

the_cave

Fiach, you've really got to stop making such sweeping generalizations. You've clearly got some things to say, but statements like the one above don't help your cause, or make it easy to meaningfully engage you in debate. I'm interested in listening, but I just can't with so much static.

And again, I think you interpret Christian scripture much more literally than even most Christians do! I don't know what sort of Christians you've had encounters with, but I know very few who actually teach or believe the kinds of things you attribute to them.