Tom Sawyer

I have to agree with the people who say take the money. You need to get out of this situation and on your own. That takes cash to do and if you don't have enough to do it on your own, get it from your parents and use it to start yourself out.

The moral thing to do would be to say no to their money and do it on your own, to show that you can survive without the helpof abusers. The practical matter, however, is that it's hard to do this and if you take their money now, there's a lot less chance that you'll have to move back into their house later.

Once you're set on your own, tell your dad where he can go shove himself. Until then, swallow your pride and use them to get yourself out on your own.

Godless Dave

I graduated college with $1500 in my pocket and no car. If a slacker like me can start from that I'm sure Liana can.

Goliath

LianaLi,

I can honestly say that if I were in your shoes, I'd die before apologizing.

Sincerely,

Goliath

PS Yes, I'm male.

Pyrrho

First, let me admit that I did not read your original post; only this one. Based on what you say here, I agree with Godless Dave and with Soyin Milka. Why would anyone imagine that he isn't going to attack you again? He might not, but I sure wouldn't want to count on it.

LianaLi

My inital gut reaction to my mother's first proposal was to say "Fuck you" and walk away. Afterall, she absolutely failed at protecting me and pulling my dad off of me. How can I trust either of them really? My dad to keep a hold of his temper, or my mom to be responsible for him, which is just plain absurd. But I digress.

Talking with my mother has progressed to a level that I find reasonable. The way things stand now, my mom has suggested that both my father and I write down our own perceptions of what happened, and discuss them. I get to choose where and when this occurs. Obviously, I'm going to choose a public restaurant, with quiet tables, but not secluded. If he loses his temper again, there are going to be witnesses. (Can we tell that I don't trust him anymore?) Anyways, the conditions have also been brought down to that if the talk goes well, my mother won't be so limited by my dad when it comes to helping me out. I'm not holding my breath.

What really disturbs me is people's reactions to it, namely people I consider to be friends. Yes, I know it's hard to start out on one's own- I grew up a WIC baby and shopping at places like Goodwill and St. Vincent de Paul's, so hardship and poverty aren't unknown to me, only faded childhood memories. So starting out on my own doesn't scare me.

What does disturb me is the friends who seem to think I cannot do this on my own, and I cannot survive without my parnet's help. Honestly, what kind of help is it, that doesn't want to awknowledge someone's behaviour as bordering on abusive? Why do people I consider to be close friends seem to completely miss out on the whole fact that my parents kept me at home and dominated me for the vast majority of my life and instilled a belief that I cannot and could not do things on my own without them? Why don't they realize that if I go back, it'll be that much harder for me to step out on my own? Why don't they realize that it's simply not safe for me to be around my dad anymore?

These things boggle my mind. On one hand, I do awknowledge that it's going to be hard and that things would be so much easier if I just accepted their help. On the other hand the help in question has a very strong possibility of being just another tool to dominate me, and make me the submissive daughter meant to serve my parents' ends and means my entire life. The fact that my dad is not afraid of using physical force to achieve that end, is absolutely unacceptable. And I'm utterly baffled as to why my guy friends don't pick up on this very real, and very frightening danger.

On the other hand, it also partially explains why abuse happens, unchecked. If people don't recognze certain behaviours as dangerous... well then. I have to say, I lost alot of respect for many of my friends who seemed to show a frightening ignorance about the dangers of dealing with my dad. The ignorance of the difficulty in admitting someone's more or less assaulted you, plus trying to change the behaviours that allowed you to get into that situation in the first place truly and deeply bothers me.

See, now this kind of thinking really, really frightens me. It basically says that for every violent action, there are no consequences. I do not want him to think that there are no consequences for his behaviour, that this little problem with his temper can be swept under the rug. I am lucky that I was not seriously hurt. The real benefit of my martial arts training is that it actually made me strong enough so that I wasn't hurt when my dad, my mom, and I all fell off the couch together and landed on me. I wasn't hurt when he shoved me into the ground. I was only bruised when he pinned my arms to the ground with his legs. It could have been so much worse.

I actually had a hard time fighting back, because I didn't seriously expect a truly violent, out of control attack from my own father. I remembered getting a kick in, but I pulled it because I didn't consider him someone I needed to hurt in my own self defence. I didn't realize he was out of control until it was too late. I can't really convey this very well, about how hard it is to fight someone that is close to you, or someone you considered close to you. You just don't expect them to hurt you, until they do.

Then I bit him.

But I digress. The reason I would have wanted to press charges, or why I will press charges if he ever hits me again, is for him to realize that there are consequences for one's actions. In this case, if another person assaults someone else, that is a crime. If you commit a crime, charges are pressed against you, and you are either proven innocent or guilty. That's the theory behind the justices system anyways. Moreover, I want him to realize that I will fight back. He cannot bully, intimidate, or even use force on me, to get me to fall in line with his view of the world anymore.

Getting him to admit he has a problem would just be icing on the cake.

-Liana

girlwriter

Liana,

I'm with Godless Dave here, this is not about pride, it's about integrity. You can make it without your parents' help, and yes, it will be difficult. But I don't think it will be more difficult than the family troubles you are going to experienc as a result of sending your parents the message that it's acceptable to assault you and manipulate you.

Pyrrho

Unfortunately, most men are worthless. Most men do not treat women like real human beings. Most men, of course, will tend to deny such statements, but they are not a disinterested party (and most men are liars anyway). And yes, it is upsetting to think about how awful people often are.

My advice is to pay attention to which of your "friends" are clueless and which have some sense. And don't confuse "acquaintances" with "friends", as these are entirely distinct concepts.

It would be better to live in squalor alone than with someone who is mentally and physically abusive. If you are destitute, you may wish to find out if there are any women's shelters in your area, as Soyin Milka aptly suggested.

ju'iblex

Liana's father may have been the guilty party in all this, but please, don't do all three billion men in the world a disservice by lumping them all into one catgory. That most certainly is not fair.

Liana, I have every faith in you that you can make it on your own. I think you already know what would be best for you in the long run, and I say go ahead and do it. If nothing else, you deserve respect for any decision you make in this.

The Stranger

This is true of quite a few women too.

Pyrrho

Please reread what I said (emphasis added):

I NEVER said anything about "all three billion men in the world" as you allege. Please explain to me why you missed the repeated use of the word "most". Not once did I use or suggest the word "all". I NEVER said what you allege I said.

Furthermore, LianaLi was expressing concern not simply about her father, but by the reaction of most of the men's reactions to the actions of her father:


So, not only was her father violent toward her, but most of the men she discussed this with did not seem to have much of a problem with it. How should one react to this? How is one supposed to react to the fact that violence against women is very common in our society, and very little is done to stop it? Why is it that MOST men don't seem to understand this?