Koyaanisqatsi

I think we've got a little "chicken and egg" thing here, malai that I was hoping you'd avoid.

Yes, but the exercise you gave her instructs on how to contact her "higher self," so how did you come upon this exercise? Was it communicated to you and if so, how, if you weren't already in this receptive state you claim is necessary to receive instruction?

See what I'm asking you? Did you just sit down one day and think a certain way by chance and "heard" the transmission that instructed you on how to think a certain way in order to "hear" the transmission?

See what I mean? You align by your "intent." Well, previous to "hearing" or receiving any transmissions, how could you have aligned by your intent?

If that is how it is done, then how did you know how to do it, prior to being told how it was done? Accident? Direct contact that singled you out for some reason? How?

And these are benign entities, I presume? Whose only intent is to help us, right? Help us to understand our "true" selves, yes?

What "information" would that have been and what do you mean that it was "100% correct?" Do you mean you set about a rigorous scientific approach to the phenomenon, setting up guide questions and confirmation regiments with a carefully applied, redundant methodology of some nature?

Pardon me for being a skeptic, but you are, after all, posting here.

You "alone?" So there is something unique about your bloodwork or bone structure or neuronal processing that makes it so only your body can be used as a downlink of some kind? I assume you carefully detailed these findings somewhere over those three years, yes?

Un hunh. And this is different from every single other generation since man started recording its own history? Or is this the eschatalogical basis for all religions for thousands of years and it took that long for you to be born with whatever unique qualities you possess and no one else does?

For what purpose? A coach at a foot race, kind of thing? To keep reminding us that we are "little selves" to these "higher selves"? That we have some sort of "mission" to fulfill perhaps?

How big of you...all. That wasn't the intent of my question, however. I asked why you are proselytizing; as in, what is the urgency of this message and why wasn't it therefore simply "beamed" into everyone's head at once as you claim it was beamed into yours? It all goes hand in hand with my other questions that you haven't addressed.

Is it all right if I ask you questions regarding your claim or is there some sort of faith-like conditional placed on all of this? Are you not allowed to tell us why only you have directly received this message and that the rest of us are to simply take you at your word, for some reason? If it is, that's fine, I'd just like to know what you know regarding the specifics of this claim and to what standard of review you applied over those three years of 100% "correct" information.

Then why have you been so cryptic and evasive regarding any tangible, rational analysis and why are you being defensive in regard to the specificity to either our questions or your answers? For example, why did you post all of that pre-emptive, defensive caveats if there isn't anything suspicious or anything that hasn't been rigorously tested in some fashion that we can all agree upon as being as thorough and comprehensive as possible?

"Needs?" See what I mean? You say this is nothing but a benign transference of wisdom on your part, and then load your declaratives with such things as "It is the individual that needs to understand..." What is the nature of this "need" and why are you implying that it is somehow imperative that this "need" be met in the manner your proscribe?

You further muddy the waters with vague referrences that resemble all other eschatological claims throughout human history; the end is nigh, kind of thing. Why? You say something is coming. What is it? Where is coming from? What are the outcomes and consequences, if any, for those of us who do not perform your ritual, beside lack of some sort of speciallized knowledge? If I don't connect to my "higher self" (or, presumably, some "other" higher self), then what will be the outcome of that decision?

Please keep in mind that I am not asking you for metaphor or analogy or parable; I'm asking you to quantify the information you've been gathering for over three years and can undeniably confirm is "100% correct?"

Or, again, is this like a religion in that we are to take this on faith and if so, why? Why would faith be a required conditional? Or have you not been told any of these things/asked for any of these answers?

Then why is there any kind of action required of us at all? Will connecting to my "higher self" mean that I will no longer be in this false world? Will it mean I won't have to go to work or pay my bills or think about where I'd like to retire, or does all of that just magically go away, and if so, then what?

I assume you no longer live in this false reality because of your elevated state of consciousness, yes? So tell us about your higher life and, again, please do not couch it into poetic terminology or the like, since, you should know, nobody here puts any faith in such cult like tools; just as an FYI.

Yes, funny how that always seems to happen with people that make like claims. You aren't important, yet you are the one with whatever unique qualities you presumably possess that made you able to be the only one to hear this message.

By the way, what exactly is the message, again? I must have missed it, unless the message is that we all have "higher selves," in which case, that's not exactly a new message.

And you point that out why? Is that supposed to support your claim, in some manner, or were you just trying to assure me, for some reason, that this wasn't the first place you've posted your message...excuse me, the message from these "higher" entities.

Then how do you know they are "100% correct?"

I have and you have provided little to no substance; just deliberately cryptic vaguaries, which is why I asked is this was somehow faith-based, remember?

Is there something that is preventing you from speaking in as detailed and specific terms as possible to impart the methodology you have employed over the past three years or so?

So far you have made a claim and told us that the claim cannot be challenged, necessarily, only accepted. Why, if indeed, this is such an important claim?

malai5

[QUOTE]Originally posted by livius drusus
[B]The Lady asked for evidence, malai5, not proof and most certainly not homework. Her own experience could be tainted by any number of environmental factors. Shea's higher self might not be exactly what you had in mind, if you catch my drift. After all, she does live in Vegas.

Since it's clear that you have no physical evidence of any kind and that indeed you eschew it as limiting and inferior, you could at least provide some kind of statistical analysis, or possibly even a wee drappie of survey research. I understand that the triumvirate speaks from their true selves in connection with the universal mind, but why not throw us poor 3Ders a bone and get a nice little prospectus together so we can finally know just what exactly you're talking about.

Dear livius drusus.

What we are talking about, as well as bringing universal information as to how ''it'' all works, is the way to live your life in the 3D world, not with the limitations of 3D ways, but by the bigger perspective, universal way.
This understanding is to put you in touch with what you truly are as a universal being.
It is a personal journey and has nothing to do with any 3D systems whether they be religions or new age religions or anything to do with the past of the 3D world.
The information we post is also to put you in touch with the importance of fulfilling your contract for this life. To help you wade through the falsities and seductiveness of a 3D world, all designed to test your resolve to be the best you can with what you have.

The universal way is 180degrees out of sync with the 3D world and as the 3D world is designed to teach, this is the way humans learn. You know it's hot because there is cold to compare with, there is mis- trust to learn about trust etc etc. Once you see that this is the way it works, you can start to break down your conditionings and learned ways, which have brought this world to it's knees. Guess it must be doing something wrong.

As for a ''prospectus'', you will have to be content with the fact that we teach people to see beyond their conditionings, to see that their ''reactions'' are driven by their learned societial survival processes, their defence of self. We teach them to understand that they do not have to defend something which in truth they don't have to defend. Everyone is an individual and do not need to conform to anyone else's perception of them. When this is understood, there is freedom of self.

The teaching of the connecting to the higher self and subsequently the universal mind is part and parcel of the ''freeing'' of self from the limitations of conditioned thinking, the way of 3D.

Cheers.

Malai5.

malai5

Dear LadyShea.

If your perceptions are limited to the either, or way of seeing, you will never be able to see anything that you don't already know. You see us as ''crystal wavers'', when in fact you could not be further from the truth. You are showing the limits of your perceptions. Try to throw away what you have learned and ''see'' with ''clear'' eyes/objective eyes.

A grocery list is simply saying that you, at this point are being very 3D and wishing to care for others, your family. Might be time to think about you in all this. This should not be seen as selfish, as to give to you is to give to others. The more self fulfilled you are, the better you can truly be to others, for their growth.

Cheers.

Malai5.

Koyaanisqatsi

If I may livius?

And what we are actually talking about is a far more detailed analysis of precisely what it is you are talking about and the evidence you present for an existance of a "bigger perspective, universal way."

You are repeatedly making unsubstantiated claims. Kindly cease and desist and provide intelligent, reasoned analysis of your claims and the evidence in support of those claims.

If you will not, then you are asking us to accept what you say on faith, which is nothing more than the same old crap from every other religion on the block.

Perhaps you aren't understanding that your claim to priviledged knowledge and your "declaraing from the mountaintop" tone hold absolutely no weight here, nor should they anywhere else. This is a site for critical freethinkers to rationally discuss all elements of whatever claims are made, so kindly do so, if you please.

Arrogantly implying that we are somehow not in touch with ourselves as a "universal being." I am here. I live in this universe. How then am I not in touch with that fact and what measures do you offer to test this unsubstantiated declaration, let alone know what I or anyone else is and is not in "touch" with?

See, one aspect right there certainly begs your own question, since this is not a "3D" world, it is arguably a "4D" world (the fourth dimension being widely regarded as "time"). One would think that your priviledged knowledge from "higher selves" would have made such a distinction clear to you prior to sending you out to proselytize, yes? Especially in light of the fact that you offer nothing else but your words to support your claim.

Yes, you've mentioned this indirectly before, yet have failed to detail exactly what this "contract" is. Why?

Ahhh, so it's nothing more than every other religion on the planet. Let me guess, we are being tested in some manner and the test involves our rejecting the "sin" of living in this world?

What, exactly are the "falsities and seductiveness"'s of a 4D world?

So you've claimed and continue to not quantify or qualify. What does this mean? First of all, one cannot be 180 degrees "out of sync" with anything. One is either "in sync" or "out of sync." There are no "degrees" of "syncness."

Do you mean that we are somehow going in the opposite "direction" (which is what degrees measure in this context) and if so, what does that mean? Spiritually, I'll assume, yes?

So we are all going in the opposite direction in regard to our spiritually? Please qualify that. How and who are doing this?

Is every single person on earth going in the opposite direction in regard to their spiritual journeys and if so, how is that possible? A journey means that you are on some sort of trek; a largely dynamic event that has little to nothing to do with exactly where one might go or even how one gets there, yes? It is what one learns on the "journey" that is generally agreed upon by most of us to be the important aspect of taking any kind of journey, so are you saying that we are somehow learning the opposite of what we--according to your priviledged knowledge asserts--should be learning?

Who are you or anybody to make such an unfounded assertion regarding what any of us do? Because you've received some sort of ethereal transmission this authorizes you (without support) to merely declare that your way is the only way to truth?

This is quantifiably different from all other religions how? Because you appear to be offering it "free of charge?" How does mere altruism, if indeed that is the case, serve to confirm your claims to any but the most ignorant among us?

How does learning one cannot necessarily have cold without hot to compare it to equate with some kind of nefarious conditionings and "learned ways?"

What the hell are you talking about? "Brought this world to it's knees?" What does that mean?

Absolutely nothing that is happening on this planet will have any impact at all to the planet itself, including global thermo-nuclear warfare, so I'll have to assume (again) that you are talking merely about humanity on this planet, yes?

What precisely about the status quo of the entirety of human existence has brought us, suddenly, now to our knees? War? Famine? Strife? Aka., the exact same things that have gone on for hundreds of thousands of years?

You are claiming that earth (and, presumably, the rest of the "3D" universe) is nothing more than a sort of boot camp. Beside mystical transmissions that none of us can confirm only accept, what evidence do you have that would support your wild contentions and why do you continue to evade this?

Don't you have evidence to support your contentions? You claimed you had studied this for three years and found your "information" to be "100% correct." That's remarkable. Why then are you not providing us with this same "information?"

Or are you, and it just turns out that your "information" (that you claim you collected over three years and found to be "100% correct") is nothing more than deliberately vague, cult-dogma-rehash platitudes?

Why in the hell would anyone be stupid enough to be "content" with something that is not a fact, nor even quantifiable in any manner yet provided?

Once again, you're merely claiming you know best and that it works! Kindly provide quantifiable evidence to support your claims or sell your snake-oil down the line.

The remarkable amounts of arrogant assumptions in that last section are just too numerous to count, so let's cut to the chase. You teach them that they don't have to defend themselves, because there's nothing to defend, at the same time you tell them that they need to be taught this in order to fulfill some sort of "contract;" a "contract" that they are somehow not fulfilling, because they are defending (somehow and to whom, we don't know) what they don't need to defend.

In other words, you're selling them themselves and pretending that they need you to close the transaction. Absent any quantification, the only conclusions anyone can come to regarding your claims are that you are a either a charlatan or a mental patient off there meds.

Oh. Sorry. Didn't mean to get into "either or" thinking, but then, since I ultimately have nothing to defend, I'll let it stand.

Yes, the "universal mind" that we are somehow diametrically opposed to because we defend what we don't need to defend, due to the fact that we have been "conditioned" by a false reality.

Well, I'm certainly glad you think you don't need to quantify or qualify any of these minor, trivial claims you keep declaring to be true on nothing more than your say so.



Sell it walking or act like an adult and provide your reasoned analysis and detailed synopsis of your "information" and the methodology you employed to test it.

Cheers.

malai5

Dear Koyaanisqatsi.

1) We had heard that it was possible to connect in this way, but were skeptical. You know, crystal wavers and all that. The second time I tried it, I received a message for someone I had not seen for years. The message meant nothing to me. When I passed it on it was very significent and the person it was intended for was indeed perplexed as to how the information could come through me.
That was the start. The information comes through as ''thoughts'', which appear to ''sit'' separate from ''normal'' subjective thoughts. We then write them down.

2) My intent was to see if I could receive, for I had heard it was possible. As simple as that.

3) If your intent is benign, what you will contact will be. Your higher self will always want to help, but if you ignore that help, it will step back, until you are amenable.

4) We have been given predictive information about our personal lives and world events which has proved to be 100% accurate. We are still in receipt of information of the same accuracy. No need to apologise for being a skeptic, we were also very skeptical at the beginning.

5) We know ''who'' we are and where we stand in the greater sceme of things. It is ''who'' we are as universal beings that gives us our ''job'' our role, nothing to do with 3D physiology.
Everyone can connect for their own growth, our path is a bit different. Yes, we have detailed our experiences over the 3 years, our personal journey of change in us and understanding of what we (and all humans) are.

6) The time was right for the universal information to be released to the world. We have been here many times, many lives.

7) Everyone, has a mission to fulfill, some great some small. The information is to acquaint you with your abilities which will be ''normal'' in the new world to come. The 5D world.

8) All beings who are meant to know, will know. We are just the public face of the information. It will not all come from our writings, most will be intuitive. Who do you think ''really'' drives your bus.
There is an urgency because the 3D world is now moving through it's greatest change ever. The message is designed to ''sit'' with you or not. It is designed to ''wake up'' your memory as to why you incarnated into this life and your purpose here. The fact that you are asking these questions is testament to this. You could ignore it entirely. Surely that alone should say something to you.

9) We can answer questions on the material we post, but we have no need to validate ourselves as to intent, methodology and anything to do with 3D thinking. It's you that need that for your justifications, not us. Just read the words, if you want to, of our posts, you work it out. There is nothing for us in this on a 3D level. You will just have to take our word for that.

10) Needs are essentials in any world. They are the basics. The individual, the 3D individual does not know about this hidden part of themselves, but it is, at this time of change that they are acquainted with it for their ''needs''. A world in turmoil.
What is coming is a dimensional change for this world and we will post an article on it. 3D to 5D, one overlaid over the other. Beings will only occupy this ''new'' 5D world. To tell you what predictive information we have and have had would put us under suspicion from authorities in these uncertain times and we are not prepared to do this, at this point. We have had to take on ''faith'', to get as far as we have, it's up to you, your choice.

11) Yes, they will get their guidence, but they can go against it, free will remember. Their conditioning goes against them.
We are aware of the greater reality as well as the 3D ''reality'', we still have to pay our bills, as they are a part of what we live in. Being aware, means you have a different perspective of life, you live it differently, without fear.

12) ..........

13) Not to support a claim, just a fact.

14) We have learned to have Trust Faith and Belief.

15) The methodology we have outlined, you have to prove it for yourself. Don't just take our word for it.

Cheers.

Malai5.

malai5

Dear Koyaanisqatsi.

You have posted reams of questions to us mainly revolving the proof of ourselves and our material, and that is fine, if we were looking for a security clearance to work for the CIA. or some such organisation.
Do you grill the others with gifts, such as the writers on this forum. Do you make them prove their interpretation of a poem, or a personal view of a philosophy attached to same.
You are acting like a ''cult buster'' on a mission to save the ''fragile'' minds of those on the forum.
Your ''barrage'', is a bit like the ''shock and awe'' tactics employed by the military, all very 3D.

We are not here to impress anyone by showing our prowess in this area, we hope you are not either.
We could sit down and tediously answer your questions, one by one, as we have done up to this point, but it is patently obvious that you are out prove more about you than about us.

We will answer your carefully thought out questions when you take the effort to see if you can do a bit of thinking about the material as others on this forum have done. It takes a bit more than a ''skim'' read to get the point. Your questions tell us that this is so. Any comparrisons with any ''new age'' material will not give you the correct view.

So, having said that, we are looking forward to having an intelligent discussion with you, as we do with others on a level that is befitting of intelligent human beings.

Cheers.

Malai5.

Koyaanisqatsi

Pot? Kettle. Black.

Or making wildly unsubstantiated claims about mystical transmissions from the fifth dimension trying to communicate to our "little selves" in order to warn us about a "contract" with the universe that we are necessarily "180 degrees out of sync with," on a secular website.

Perhaps you're not understanding me, so I'll try to make it as plain as I can. We're not interested in your personal thoughts on the concept of evidence. Provide it please. Assent to the request. Comply. Capisca?

Yes, as a matter of fact I/We do. That's primarily the purpose of this website; to rigourously deconstruct and analyze claims and whatever type of evidence may or may not exist in support of them.

Are you now claiming that all of what you have posted so far is nothing more than a poem or "personal view?"

So what "information" gathered over three years and proved 100% correct do you have? Iambic pentameter? Haiku (gesundheit, you're welcome)?

Nice ad hominen. Truth is, I am a "cult buster," but on a slightly different "mission;" I'm out to save the "fragile" minds of those indoctrinated into cults. Cults that bear a striking resemblance to precisely the same "message" and manner you've so far presented.

As you may know by now from another one of your threads, I've hunted down and read everything you've posted so far and as a personal philosophy it's certainly convoluted, but imaginative, I'll give you that; though, again, it reads more like a haphazzard amalgam of the SETH material and the Emmanual channelling books.

But you aren't just "offering" your personal philosophy (at least not initially). You were making declarations; shouts from the mountaintop about the "true" way and the need for this to happen in a distinctly eschatological manner, so you'll forgive me for assuming that if it walked like a duck and talked like a duck and declared with every quack it made, "I am a duck!" that I might have mistaken you for an actual duck, yes?

Yeah, well, hey, dude... that's just, like, my 180 degree "little self" talking, you know? Man...?

If you'll recall, I very politely asked you provide evidence in support of your claim long ago and you all you do is to continue to evade your burden of proof with theistic claims that you don't have to fulfill any burden, it us and our "3D" thinking that's the problem as to why we can't just accept what you're saying is true.

Followed inevitably by the, "Hey, man, I'm just putting it out there" martyr complex, like it's somehow our fault for actually asking you to substantiate your claim.

See what I mean? Had you simply stated, "Hi, my name's malai. I wanted to post something I've been thinking about and I know it will sound a little strange, let me tell you exactly what happened to me and see what you think," chances are pretty good I wouldn't have had to resort to "shock and awe" tactics, as you so eloquently hyperbolized, yes?

You don't walk into the middle of a chess tournament and scream: "None of you know how to play the real game of chess! The one none of you even knows exists," without one or two of those chess players actually turning your way and questioning you a bit, yes?

See? It's horseshit evasion tactics like that that immediately betrays your fraud. No one has asked you to impress anyone; we've simply asked you (again and again) to substantiate your claims; the claims you now claim are merely poetry!

You made an extraordinary claim tainted with eschatological hyperbole and terminology and then continue to evade supporting it with anything remotely substantial. When asked repeatedly to kindly comply with our wishes, you evade it all with this fallacious, hack martyr routine.

Kindly do not pretend to be pious and indignant on one hand and then humble and dismissive when someone simply asks you, "What is your evidence in support of your claim?"

Talk about "3D" thinking!

Yes, that's right. I'm just a megolomaniacal freak of nature who just wants to shit all over beauty and truth to read my own words in print! Woo hoo! Look at me, look at me!

Do you know what the term "ad hominen" means, by any chance? You should. It may become your family motto.

My "carefully thought out questions" eh? Man, you're fickel.

I see, so, again, it's all my fault for not just seeing the truth of what you so piously claim (unless challenged, in which case you switch to false humility and the poor victim of my "shock and awe" attacks). That's mighty convenient. I'll have to try that too.

Why are you attacking my simple little questions? My post was just put "out there" for you to ruminate on and see the errors of your 5D thinking, which is 180 degrees out of sync with the true reality; the reality of the glorious 3D world, for in 3 we have the magical number repeated throughout all mind and matter, the Id, Ego and Superego and the Father, Mother, Offspring, and this being the third planet from the sun, the only planet capable of sustaining life among the 9 other. For 3 is a factor of 9, thus the G.O.D. (Gather Observational Datum) of the only true, tangible reality testifies to its own truth and the true nature of reality; brute facts that have proved 100% correct for billions of years that any 5D, imaginative, fantasy thinking individual--whose thoughts are always of a false reality; of dreams and poetry and philosophical "personal views" that the very presence of the triune existence (Electron, Positron, Quark) affirms against--needs to recognize and come to terms with; to open one's eyes and see and realize that the sight is the result of photons independently existing that are merely witnessed by and interpretated through our very brains! The evidence is all around you if only you will meditate upon it, literally; like a sofa or a cushion on the floor. The ways of the 5D homocentric, self-inflattory, self-indulgent, self-specific imagination being the avenue of charlatans and frauds throughout all of humanity's short existence, relatively speaking to the incredibly long time that no life existed in any like manner for millions upon millions of years, of course, and it is this thinking that must be purged for the new dawn to come; the dawn of reasoned intelligence and applied critical thinking, incorporating all aspects of human cognitive processing, including the 5D imaginative, self-congratulatory, mental-masturbatory, self-conflatorally 180 degree out of sync thinking to arrive at a true moment of evolutionary breakthrough; where individual ignorance is not preyed upon by dodge and wiggle snake-oil salesmen who come, not to bring peace, but a sword, until asked, and then it magically gets turned into, "No, no, you misunderstood, I came to bring peace, not a sword. If only you had read what I said more carefully with 5D eyes."

Hey, I like this! 3, being closer to the 1 is therefore supperior to the 5, but I'm just putting this out there, not to impress, not to do anything at all, really, in spite of the fact that I'm doing something overtly by posting it in such declaratory manner in the first place! No, it is you who cannot understand, locked as you are, confused you may be, about the true reality of the 3 over the 1 and carry the 5!

Sorry, far too late for that, my friend. I and others gave you many chances to simply provide your evidence and you are the one that keeps behaving in such a childish manner; I only answer it in kind to demonstrate precisely what you have already done.

But that's understandable, seeing as you are 180 degrees out of sync with the true, 3D world; the more advanced, intelligent orientation, where one need to fulfill only a social contract; the one you continue to avoid through ad hominen evasions and poor-victim tactics.

If you seriously wish to engage in an intelligent conversation like real adults, then don't whine and complain when you're slapped for behaving like a child in response to that intelligent conversation, yes?

Now, for the last and most polite time, kindly provide us all with the evidence you have gathered and the methodoloy you employed to verify its authenticity and the detailed (aka; non-poetic) "information" you've gathered over three years that you continue to claim is "100% correct," yes?

If you really would like to be treated like an adult, then I suggest you start acting like one and substantiate your claim. That's what intelligent, real adults do.

Cheers.

diana

Nathaniel Hawthorne? Is that you?

:notworthy , Koy.

Put the smack down. Carry on.

d

Aethernaut

:notworthy Well said, Koy.

Like I said on another one of these now tedious threads, this is sounding less like clairvoyance and a lot more like a con with every post.

Viti

Oh my gawd...why didn't you just type blah blah blah chakra, blah blah blah frequency, blah blah blah spirit guide and cleanse my aura? What a bunch of silly nonsense...think I'll go make a medicine wheel out of sticks and rocks in Sedona and ask my higher self why the hell I actually read anything you typed.