Jacey

Ok. Then I'm doing my part by sinning on a regular basis to make sure Jesus didn't die in vain.

I'm sure God will save me and I'll go to heaven when I die so I can float around on clouds with no genitals.

Shadowy Man

Excellent. :notworthy

Wyz_sub10

Speak for yourself. My issue relates to people crediting god instead of other factors, and/or attributing good things to god but not bad things. Amie, specifically, has nothing to do with the discussion for me beyond being a person with a differing point of view. She is not the subject of this conversation, and I would be equally willing to engage anyone who wants to share their opinion on the subject.

I'm saying, though, that while a Christian may thank god for good weather, they would not blame him for bad weather. It's a one-way thing - all things good are from god and all things bad are from man or satan, *or* they are really good things from good disguise.

I should hope not. But that raises the question - when does one turn over control to god and what is the extent of that control?

God helps save the man hanging from wires, but not the woman falling from the overpass. Why the distinction? I would guess it's because most believers know god doesn't work that way, but *want* to believe he does, so when the opportunity to credit god with intervention presents itself, they take it.

Azathoth

Well,I didn't see any reason to be hostile with you.I do appreciate the complement,though.As for me being an Athiest,you never know,I might be Agnostic,or a Deist.



Definitely,or the best possible explanation.At the moment,it appears as if such occurrences are random chance.From all outward appearances,this seems to be the case.

Proposing a being that intervenes,for good or ill,in the affairs of humans,would require some sort of proof,so that it would seem to be that creature's work,instead of just random chance.


Well,now first we have to show that it had a supernatural explanation,not just random chance.Then we would have to go about looking at what supernatural agent it was.At that point,we could deal with the troll issue.

But at the moment,there is just no evidence of trolls or God,in those events.

thebeave

When people believe that God had a hand in some event or was in control, do they ever try to resolve the details of this belief? For example, the guy thrown from his car and landing on the wires. WHAT precisely, did God do here? Did God create a special trajectory (different from what the standard physics would do) that exactly landed the man on the wires? Did God plant a thought in the man's head telling him when to apply the brakes, and for how long? Or did God somehow intentionally and magically beef up the brakes (or degrade them) so that he could impact with just the right speed? Or did God plant a thought in the man's head to make him hit his snooze alarm that morning so he would be precisely at that point in space and time? Or did God tell the man's girlfriend to call him earlier, so that he would be delayed starting his drive? Did God twist the man's body in just the right way to get him to grab the wires? Theists help me out here!

Amie

Hi thebeave Although I believe things happen for reasons which may not be obvious to us, the exact mode of divine intervention and the logistics behind that will remain unclear...
Only God would be able to answer "What precisely did God do here"
have a lovely day~
Amie

Amie

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wyz_sub10
Hi Wyz
I don't really think it is a matter of turning control over to God I just believe some things are out of our hands...
no harm in being thankful...

thebeave

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say that five years from now, the man who flew on the wires ended up pulling a child from a burning car, and that is the reason he was spared earlier this week. A very childlike view of the workings of the world IMHO, but it does give one a strong feeling of the mystical "warm and fuzzies", I must admit. Now, how about a leaf that falls from a tree in a remote forest. Is there a reason for that? Or do some minor things (such as the leaf falling) happen for no particular reason? If its something that doesn't affect human lives, does there still need to be a reason? How about if it only affects a caterpillar's life? How about an asteroid collision in interstellar space that is 1000 light years away from anything and we don't even know about it. Was there a reason for that, too or did it "just happen" with no further consequences or particular reason? How about a star going supernova in a galaxy that's a billion light years away?

Do you really believe everything happens for a reason, because that statement really makes a lot of logical sense or because its kind of a cool, new-agey, mystical thing to believe, and that, oh-boy, the world would be really cool if it worked that way, so therefore it must be true?

Amie

Why?
Hi thebeave
I think things happen for reasons even if I dont understand the those particular reasons, i feel some day I will. Its just what I believe, I am only one person though and I understand that many, most here don't share my belief...

thebeave
I *really* believe we are part of something bigger and that things happen for reasons. I think things you may call "lucky breaks and coincidences" I may think there is a specific purpose behind that. I think certain people are in our lives, not by chance but because they have important things to teach us and we have things to teach them and they are part of our destiny so to speak...

Its not my intention to sound like a new age quack, really...

Ronin

Too late

Of course ~ we just may be the 'something bigger' of 'something infinitely smaller' that simply has not found evidence of us yet...Rama Llama ding dong.

Some of the people in my life molest and murder children ~ brutally...what illustrious planned destiny could allow for this?

What about the tortuously cruel unlucky breaks...as you and I have experienced?

You appear to display a distinctly selective view, Amie, in order to promote some vague sense of a universally anthropocentric benevolence.

I'll pass on that opiate in favor of facing the ambiguity of life with the full effort of my simple human diligence...and with full knowledge that there are simply circumstances that are beyond my control.