John Page

The activity of brain matter is detected as thinking. How do you know you're thinking, you ask?

Hmmm. (Pause for effect)

What makes you think that thinking is anything other than stirring the porage (or porridge) between your ears?

Cheers, John

Luiseach

lol John, I'm looking for profundity!

You're the philosopher...come on, please let me know that you realise that thinking involves language?

John Page

Not all thinking is dependent upon language. First the concept, then the word...

yguy

The value of a stock is a number assigned to it based on the opinions of potential buyers of the stock. It may be true that buyers' opinions at time X cause the dollar figure Y to be assigned to it, but at that time, the accounting department of the firm in question may be realizing that it is going bankrupt. Therefore, I submit that a stock value has a truth value comparable to that the "clothing value" of the Emperor's new clothes, which went to zero the instant the little boy pointed out the obvious.

That is a convention, not a truth, I would say. It is true that in America one should drive on the right-hand side, but the convention to do so is not superior to its opposite. Or, it is true that the convention in America is to drive on the right.

Don't know the movie; but again, sounds like a matter of convention.

Luiseach

'Concepts' derive from language, though, do they not?

How can we have 'concepts' without language...

Luiseach

Sometimes 'truth' is a matter of convention.

John Page

Concept is a word used to represent an idea, mental entity.
We cannot talk about concepts without language, but surely mental entities must exist before we attain language to talk about them. Another argument is that one must have language concepts in order to implement a language.

Maybe the issue here is that our concept of what a concept actually is, differs.

Cheers, John

fallowcypher

Do you remember when you first learned to think? Which came first, learning to think or learning a language? Or is original thinking a kind of private language?

Gurdur

Wrong. Define "talking about a concept" and "concept".

Nonverbal language ? Plays a huge role in human communication.
which would explain why people are never lost for words, or have problems expressing or even recognising their feelings, or why legal language is so extraordinarily convoluted --- in order to specify something.
or IOW, huh ?

Oh dear.
Concepts as inherent properties ?
Taking Chomsky way, way into cognitive psychology, aren't you ?
uh, yes.

John Page

...or is private language just a deconstructionist excuse for not having a sensible answer? Even if a private language existed, if it inherits all the characteristics of public or formal languages IMO it is still subject to the same limitations and still needs to be implemented.

BTW, I can remember thinking thoughts that there were no words to express. Hence my inclination to philosophical thought.

Cheers, john