Doctor X

To be fair it also states that he created evil.

--J.D.

Leah

Aren't all beings judged by their doings?
To me the idea of god lacks deeper emotions of the positive sense
There are many examples for this thesis, mainly in the Hebrew scriptures (Old Testament)
- mass murdering as described in the five books of Moses.
- ten plagues of Egypt, including the death of all firstborn
- the deaths of newborn also having had an impact at Moses time of birth, so at Jesus'
- severe punishment of Moses (for his outburst when letting water out of the rock) in not letting him enter the promised land (only after many years did your god at least let Moses see the promised land )
- Just to prove a point to Lucifer, god let Jobs wife and children die, .... but hey, he gave him a new family and wealth. Come on, one family is like any other, no hard feelings.
- God taking a fancy in sanctual killing of first born sons all through the bible, really. Just think of Abraham.
- etc.

Before you say now that god had not interfered to prove a point, than please explain Soddom and Gomorra , the Lot story. Blind obedience again the key here, just think of his wife.

Jesus later said that one can "recognise them by their doings" , and that is all I'm recognising the nature of your god by.
It is in my believe for ourselves to "choose between good and evil" just like the snake, Lucifer, had said. And good and evil/bad, can't exist without another.
No good doing goes without a dark side.

Example:
As follows a quote from Leah Levine, translated back into the original English version :
"Those who believe to work with Jesus Christ are often convinced to be holding the key to the havenly kindom of god alrealy in their hands.
Often they are by far more intolerant and get rather "angry", when brought to their attention, that the healing of a desease is from the viewpoint of the virus purely black and destructive magick.
One has to realise that all is relative ..."

Therefor who claims that a god was only "good" has never learned the basics of physics, which are the principle of our cosmos.

Hey, you made me laugh there. But a good point, I must admit. Having brought up by a christian preacher, while of Jewish origin, if I really ever felt the need to enslave my mind and body again by any form of orgainsed believe, than probably that would be an interesting option.

For what is more dangerous:
The one who is claimed to be purely good but creates and acts evil,
or the one who is sad to be evil, but was never really given a chance to make his own statement over the matter??

:notworthy

Doctor X

Just to be picky . . . the serpent is not called Lucifer, nor is the prosecutor of Job.

"Lucifer" comes from a Latinization of a taunt against a king comparing him to the rise and fall of a celestial body:

Forsyth explains that Shahar preserves the old mythological meaning as a dawn goddess:

Right . . . carry on. . . .

--J.D.

References:

Clifford, Richard J. The Cosmic Mountain in Canaan and the Old Testament. Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1972. [Source of translation of Isaiah quoted by Forsyth.--Ed.]

Forsyth, Neil. The Old Enemy: Satan & the Combat Myth. Princeton: Princeton Unversity Press, 1987.

Milton

Yes, but....

As I said before, who is the judge of God? And to whom will we compare Him? We can't compare Him to us, because we are below Him, we are creatures of His. We can only exist as a thought of His.

You equivocate. How can God murder? Murder is only if you unlawfully take the life of someone else. God is the owner and creator of everything. How can He take a life that is not His? All the other things are pretty much the same. Then you have the fact that justice has a part in all of this. Egypt was being punished. So were the cananites, etc. etc.

Job said it, too. God gives for a while, God then takes it. It was His to begin with, so how can He be unjust in anything?

Yea, assumptions....

God sent Satan, why would I even attempt to say that God had no involvement?

Sodom and Gomorra? Yea, did you read the whole story? It was justice. Lot story? What about the Lot story?

Funny. Who would we recognize? Gods or angels or men? I believe he said "his followers", who happen to be "humans."

Yet, you are still wrong in thinking that what God does is wrong. You are looking at it as if God is only a mere creature, that has no authority over anything but Himself (maybe).

All the laws by which we are bound, only apply to us.

What are you trying to say here?

Sorry, didn't get this one either. I guess I don't see what its relevance to the original post is.

LOL! Have you ever heard of something called static? Does physics say that there is no such thing as static? Yet again, you are trying to apply a human belief to God.

yea, I like like putting a smile on people's faces.

Leah

Well, as you can tell , the truely goodhearted people, who don't need the faith in any supernatural power in order to do good and lead a happy and fullfilling life, they are to me a good jury.
If the god you refer to is superior than i expect superior behaviour of his/her/it.


I live in a country where the death penalty is not permitted. In this country the death penalty is seen as morder, call it man slaughter, (let's not fuss about the precise words, for I'm a non native).
But I also happen to be a mother, and I don't need to be a theist to be of the conviction that even abortion is murder. It is to me the free choice of any woman, but deep in my heart is it still murder to me. But that is not the point either, right?
The point is, that although a mother becomes pregnant for nime months, and gives birth to a human being, she has no right to take the life of that child.
If god claims to be the mother of creation, than that does not give him/her/it any rights to take life away again.

My conviction, and trust me I am as stubborn as you, my friend.


Back to the above point of yours
"And to whom will we compare Him? We can't compare Him to us"
RIght you are there, if I see an injustice done than nothing can stop me from interfering. Your god sees children being abused in the name of god, women and children being raped, some of which even begging for god at the time, cruelties beyond emagination , ..... , but the time is not there yet. sigh. And that is a god of love?

As for Lot and the wife that wasn't ment to turn around but did, and therefore was turned into a salt statue on looking at the desturction of the city......, you will find that in your bible.

Won't be able to reply further, am in bit of a rush, but I like this place, and will be back if I may

@ Doctor x: I like your style

Leah

WOW! Look who's back : ME

Just saw a reply on another topic where mark 905 (or other number) refers to the Lot in question here

Now he refers to Lot in another context (him intoxinated getting too close to his daughters), but well obviously Lot is a commonly known biblical character.

Doctor X

Milton:

We may judge.

As with all things we may judge him according to his actions if he exists. The rest is a confession of faith which you are free to have with the realization that it has no grounding in anything other than your faith.

Leah:

You do me too much honor.

--J.D.

sophie

Docter X : you wish to judge the omniGOD?

Are you really up to it?

Doctor X

I already did on another thread and you could not offer a defense to prevent a sentence of the Five Choices.

--J.D.

Leah

Doctor X: check your pm please