Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Debbie T · 12-15-2002, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amie:
Hi Debbie T

there are bad apples in every bunch...

of course not, we all think differently...

You missed the point, that Christians can't come to terms with each other on their dogma, they certainly are not going to be listening to LG.

Debbie I don't think you're wrong for not believing. Whats "right" for me can be "wrong" for you, whats "right" for you can be "wrong" for me...such is life...

I don't know what you believe nor is it my concern, if it feels right for you more power to you. But most Christians I know personally believe that I am going to hell for not believing in their god. Or I am evil, or sinful the list of how many times I have been told how bad I am is a long one.

I don't agree with those judgements passed on by some either...

Its not just by some, its by most that I come in contact with.

do you have any theists in your life? not all Christians behave the same way...

I try to stay clear from most of them as they are not positive people, especially the doom and gloom ones. I have one friend that is Christian but most Christians would say she wasn't one because she goes to a Unity church.

there are bad apples in every bunch...

Perhaps I met them all since the worst human behavior and depravity I have observed personally in the last 50 years of my life has been Christians.

[ December 15, 2002: Message edited by: Debbie T ]

Shake · 12-20-2002, 10:38 AM

Hey Lib, if you've been reading those boards for a while before you posted, then you should've had an idea that it was going to be worse than talking to a brick wall. At least a brick wall doesn't (usually) throw bricks back at you. Even if just show them some small flaws in their "logic," they'll take it as an attack and retreat into further scriptural mumbo-jumbo to try to justify their position. If you're trying to convince hard-core fundies, good luck! Work on the ones with doubts, who just need a push in the right direction, and set the seeds of doubt in their minds. You shouldn't necessarily even try to convince them of anything, just get them to start questioning things. Eventually, they'll find they're getting circular answers or those "god said so" kind of answers, which doesn't help someone looking for honest answers.

seebs · 12-20-2002, 04:34 PM

Y'know, some of us are pretty calm, relatively rational, and not very dogmatic. Do you think you could maybe use a little narrower brush there?

I have a lot of the same frustrations you do. I really enjoy apologetics. I am constantly stunned by the sheer idiocy of the arguments people present. I am stunned by their closed minds, and by their endless repetition of an argument that had a hole in it the *first* twenty times, too.

The difference, I think, is this: I see Christians and atheists alike as being prone to these problems. And the only thing that bugs me more than atheists who dismiss all Christians as idiots is Christians who dismiss all atheists as idiots, because the latter are making *me* look bad, too.

Biff the unclean · 12-20-2002, 06:05 PM

Gee, Amie, just how black is that kettle?

Butters · 12-22-2002, 11:22 AM

Hey LiberatedGoddess!
They're looking for you over there. I also left them a little post, if they attempt any type of coherent response, I might join them awhile, thanks for the link!

[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: Butters ]

Amie · 12-22-2002, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean:
Gee, Amie, just how black is that kettle?

oh jeez

I just read this right now, I forgot about this thread...
care to elaborate on this you big bundle of joy?

The Other Michael · 12-22-2002, 07:42 PM

Hi LiberatedGoddess,

Keep in mind that apologetics is the practice of making lame arguments on subjects that are indefensible.

cheers,
Michael

LiberatedGoddess · 12-23-2002, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Hey Lib, if you've been reading those boards for a while before you posted, then you should've had an idea that it was going to be worse than talking to a brick wall. At least a brick wall doesn't (usually) throw bricks back at you. Even if just show them some small flaws in their "logic," they'll take it as an attack and retreat into further scriptural mumbo-jumbo to try to justify their position.

Ain't it the truth.

All the same, I wish someone on the apologetics.com discussion board saw the light and backed me up throughout the discussion. On the Apathy discussion, I expressed my disapointment with christians standing idly by while people are being beaten down in the name of Jesus. At Mathew Shepard's trial the God Hates Fagots crew came out. The christians are not know for taking a stand against these scum bags. They didn't protect Mathew's parents from being attacked. Where are the christians in D.C. during the Pride parade when signs were held up that AIDS Is God's Punishment and Mathew Shepard Deserved To Die? Where the hell were they? Where are they when Falwell attacks and blames 9/11 on everyone not like them? I know of a pastor who refused to mention Falwell's comments and how they look and feel to those who were blamed for 9/11.

When I addressed many of the above issues on apologetics.com, I was given an unbelivable runaround. You can see from my writings that I keep pulling back to my main thoughts and I am given the run-around time and again.

See the link below to the discussion about Mathew Shepard.

<a href="http://www.apologetics.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000035" target="_blank">Apologetics.com</a>

[ December 23, 2002: Message edited by: LiberatedGoddess ]

LiberatedGoddess · 12-23-2002, 09:35 PM

Butters, I read your stuff on prophecy. Very interesting. Do you see how these people go on tangents?

LiberatedGoddess · 12-27-2002, 02:48 PM

Butters, I can't tell which one is you on the apologetics site. It looks like a number of people from this site have posted. Are you the one on "Can you have morality without God?" or "Prophecy"?

12-22-2002, 11:22 AM	#15
Butters Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 444	Hey LiberatedGoddess! They're looking for you over there. I also left them a little post, if they attempt any type of coherent response, I might join them awhile, thanks for the link! [ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: Butters ]</p>

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12-20-2002, 10:38 AM	#12
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	Hey Lib, if you've been reading those boards for a while before you posted, then you should've had an idea that it was going to be worse than talking to a brick wall. At least a brick wall doesn't (usually) throw bricks back at you. Even if just show them some small flaws in their "logic," they'll take it as an attack and retreat into further scriptural mumbo-jumbo to try to justify their position. If you're trying to convince hard-core fundies, good luck! Work on the ones with doubts, who just need a push in the right direction, and set the seeds of doubt in their minds. You shouldn't necessarily even try to convince them of anything, just get them to start questioning things. Eventually, they'll find they're getting circular answers or those "god said so" kind of answers, which doesn't help someone looking for honest answers.

12-20-2002, 04:34 PM	#13
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	Y'know, some of us are pretty calm, relatively rational, and not very dogmatic. Do you think you could maybe use a little narrower brush there? I have a lot of the same frustrations you do. I really enjoy apologetics. I am constantly stunned by the sheer idiocy of the arguments people present. I am stunned by their closed minds, and by their endless repetition of an argument that had a hole in it the first twenty times, too. The difference, I think, is this: I see Christians and atheists alike as being prone to these problems. And the only thing that bugs me more than atheists who dismiss all Christians as idiots is Christians who dismiss all atheists as idiots, because the latter are making me look bad, too.

12-20-2002, 06:05 PM	#14
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Gee, Amie, just how black is that kettle?

12-22-2002, 07:42 PM	#17
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	Hi LiberatedGoddess, Keep in mind that apologetics is the practice of making lame arguments on subjects that are indefensible. cheers, Michael

12-23-2002, 09:35 PM	#19
LiberatedGoddess Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 20	Butters, I read your stuff on prophecy. Very interesting. Do you see how these people go on tangents?

12-27-2002, 02:48 PM	#20
LiberatedGoddess Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 20	Butters, I can't tell which one is you on the apologetics site. It looks like a number of people from this site have posted. Are you the one on "Can you have morality without God?" or "Prophecy"?

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