Buffman

Sabine Grant

Dassaut produces the Airbus...

Sabine, this is what I found. Do you have a specific reference available?

>>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>

Airbus Industrie is a consortium formed by EADS and BAE Systems. EADS, the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company, was formed by a merger of Aerospatiale-Matra of France, Daimler-Chrysler Aerospace of Germany and CASA of Spain (former members of Airbus).

<a href="http://www.airbus.com/about/manufacturing.asp" target="_blank">http://www.airbus.com/about/manufacturing.asp</a>

<a href="http://www.dassault-aviation.com/index_gb.htm" target="_blank">http://www.dassault-aviation.com/index_gb.htm</a>

<a href="http://www.airbus.com/about/operations.asp" target="_blank">http://www.airbus.com/about/operations.asp</a>

The largest single area of suppliers is the United States. Over 800 companies in more than 40 states produce hardware for us, ranging from engines to window glass.

Buffman

Oxymoron

I think a review of these two URLs might be useful:

<a href="http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20010614.html" target="_blank">http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20010614.html</a>

<a href="http://www.nhc.rtp.nc.us:8080/tserve/twenty/tkeyinfo/fundam.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nhc.rtp.nc.us:8080/tserve/twenty/tkeyinfo/fundam.htm</a>

I am inclined to view the expansion of TV (then Cable) into nearly every home in America as the launching platform for the increase in basic religiosity. A preacher (Televangelist) in every living room 24/7. Now we have the Web offering, for very little financial investment, an opportunity for even more fringe religionists to gain world wide exposure. However, when it comes to American religionists, of every stripe, I am more inclined to look at financial gain as the motivating factor for their proselytizing and resort to propaganda as a means of motivation, adherent enlistments and power politics. (God/Jesus promises that the faithful will be rewarded ten times fold, doesn't he? What is 10% of your income when it will multiplied by that much? Why shouldn't every American taxpayer be privileged to advance God's/Jesus's "good" works? Just look at how they will be rewarded, both materially and spiritually. Riiiiiggghht!)

I can only hope that as the battle for dollars becomes more intense, many of the lesser influential Christian denominations and sects will come to the realization that without the enforcement of the 1st Amendment separating religious dogma from government administration, they are going to be financially left out in the cold. Christianity has a very strong tendency to feed on itself when it is unable to expand into virgin lands. (Look at your own country's religious history concerning Protestants and Catholics...internal and external.)

Additionally, I would suggest that many of the religious denominations with the financial means have invested in professional public opinion manipulators to sell their message to the widest number of listeners and to create the psychologically fertile ground for the messages to take root and bloom. For instance: I believe that FDR got it exactly right in his 1933 Inaugural Speech when he said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." I believe that the current administration is using Fear to advance their power and specific Christian faith belief agenda.

<a href="http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20010614.html" target="_blank">http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20010614.html</a>

Vorkosigan

Yes, that is exactly right. When the Christian Right finally takes power, they are going to cannabalize/exterminate all their fellow travelers, the Mormons, the Moonies, the conservative Muslim "fellowshipers," the conservative Jews, and the fundy Catholics. Why do groups like the Mormons align themselves with those people? Don't they realize they'll be the first to go? Even the atheists won't be suppressed as rapidly.

Vorkosigan

Did you catch that little factoid up at the top of that very scary county map? Not only does Bush have the most population, he also controls the fastest growing counties....

Shake

Well, I've got a couple of things about this: first, I'm sorry I don't have the statistics readily available, but I keep seeing how the number of Americans who are atheist/agnostic or simply not declaring any faith has been growing steadily too!

Second, I've heard before that on average, the more educated a couple is, the fewer children they have. This doesn't speak well for the overall intelligence of mankind. This is not to say that stupid people can't have smart kids or vice-versa. Whatever.

Finally, and most personally aggravating, is that those election results probably don't take into account how the other over 50% of eligible voters (who didn't or couldn't be bothered to vote) would have voted! [rant on]...and then I read yesterday how Gore is whining about how if more Floridians had gotten out to vote, he would have won. Maybe, maybe not there, Al. It would be interesting to convince all of those who didn't vote last election to choose some 3rd party candidate and all vote him (or HER!) into office! Then wouldn't the Dems and Reps be surprised! [/rant off]

Edited to add: Hey V, I think that <a href="http://greenvilleonline.com/news/2002/11/12/2002111231492.htm" target="_blank">THIS</a> is almost as scary!

[ November 16, 2002: Message edited by: Shake ]</p>

DMB

There was a story in the UK press this week, of which I am afraid I can't remember all the details, but the gist of it was that some broadcasting medium wanted to have some celebrities testifying on behalf of xianity. They had to cancel the broadcast, because most of the celebrities they approached, even if they were xian, felt that they didn't want to come out publically as xians, since it would damage their images. I gave a small cheer!

Toto

That story was on the Infidels Newswire:

<a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-479699,00.html" target="_blank">Stars fear Christian outing</a> by a correspondent

Since this story comes from the Christians, I am not sure how much to credit it. I wonder if these starts were True Christians (tm) or if they had other reasons to avoid the ceremony and came up with some plausible sounding reason not to hurt the organizer's feelings.

Buffman

I am more inclined to suspect that it gives the Christian sponsors a propaganda opportunity to advance the claim that Christians are an oppressed group. (i.e.: "See? Even these very popular and famous Christians are afraid to admit that they love Jesus because of the retributions that might be visited upon them and their families.")

missus_gumby

That the advertisement of personal religious belief amongst those few of the UK entertainment and sporting sphere appears to be an embarrassment, comes as no shock to me. After all, therein lies the careers of Glenn Hoddle and the prime Nutwatch candidate, <a href="http://www.davidicke.com/" target="_blank">David Icke</a>.

They may privately declare themselves christians, but they sure ain't stupid enough to actually follow the supposed teachings of their New Testament hero, and let the fact slip out to the British press. It's quite funny how the tables have been turned - no one bats an eyelid when a British celebrity declares themselves gay (for example), yet the stigma now associated with christian belief is almost as bad as being found guilty of serial kiddie fiddling. And long may it last.

Jonte

It is a mistake to think that atheism or agnosticism is expected or orthodox for British public figures. Orthodox is to be attached to one of the major religions, but not to “go on about it”. Very few politicians “come out” as atheists and even those few that do will be careful to show deference to religion, often “regretting” that they are “unable” to believe. We do however have a very cynical media and any public figure talking about their religious beliefs would be immediately accused of trading on it and worse, every subsequent action would be labelled hypocrisy compared with the supposed standards of their religion. Unorthodox religion is also mercilessly pilloried and it is this that Icke, Hoddle and Prince Charles sometimes fall foul.