brighid

You are right that I sometimes – and it seems to be that in this case – read more into this than what may actually being conveyed. I truly apologize for that. Sometimes, in cyber space it’s difficult to understand the depth or accuracy of things because of the lack of face to face communication and the nuances or intonation, facial expression and things like that add to conveying a message.

Again, I apologize if I have read too much into your questions and comments. And it seems I have not allowed you to interpret it as you wish. It seems that all in all, we really agree about this whole thing. It is true that some pagans say – I take it figuratively but later take it literally and vice versa. I am really not sure how to guard against that though. I am not sure that it is even possible. I am too use to defending and I did not take the time to really listen. I guess I will have to work on that – thank you for pointing that out! J

Maybe you can provide some suggestions on how that can be guarded against. I would enjoy hearing your input and perhaps we can come up with some solutions to counter act some of our frustrations. Thanks for taking the time and energy to share and debate with me. I can be a bit stubborn sometimes Well, again – have a wonderful weekend. I am signing off now and won’t be back in Cyber Space until sometime early next week.

Brighid

Valmorian

I think the problem is that the rede is often put forth as a way to live, when it actually states something that appears to be an empirical claim. I think this is where the problem lies.

Essentially, you interpret the rede to be the same as the "golden rule". But "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." makes no claim about how the world works, and is pretty clearly just a moral code.

Perhaps if the statement didn't seem so much like a claim? I'm not sure what can be done about it though. I think you're right, and we'll just have to gently point out to people who take it literally that it most likely won't happen that way.

Of course, the claim is harmless for the most part, so it's really rarely necessary to point that out to people.

jpbrooks

Although I am a Christian and do not actually worship the natural world, I am still awed by it. A lot of what Einstein and the
<a href="http://members.home.net/cosmojovian/pantheism.html" target="_blank">Scientific Pantheists</a> say about the world parallels my perspective on it. My affinity with Pantheism, (and <a href="http://www.panentheism.com" target="_blank">Panentheism</a>, for that matter), reflects agreement "in spirit" rather than agreement in philosophical stance.

[ January 12, 2002: Message edited by: jpbrooks ]</p>

Mad Kally

I'm a strong atheist. I don't believe in any spirit and I don't worship the natural world around me. I too am awed by experiences like walking alone in a quiet forest or watching the ocean waves in the moonlight. However, I'm aware that these magical, mystical experiences are created by the neurons in my brain.

jpbrooks

Perhaps. But our brains are "wired" to respond emotionally, and perhaps religiously as well, to those experiences in a manner that is similar to, if not the same as, the way that the brains of our ancient pre-scientific human ancestors would have responded. And, (though I'm not in a position to speak for Pagans), I think that's the point that the Pagans are trying to make in their efforts to revive pre-Christian religious beliefs and practices.

[ January 12, 2002: Message edited by: jpbrooks ]</p>

Mad Kally

I'm aware of how our brains are or are not wired, and in a way I envy the pagans. It would be comforting to have something like that. As far as Christianity goes, I've spent way too much time ridding myself of the horror, guilt and fear it's caused me all my life. I'm not sure I'll ever fully recover.

Dexter Cymru

Native Americans, Heathens(sic) and Japanese might well have a direct line to their old religions (although please don't forget Voltaire's comment on the beginning of religion), but they are not the only ones. If you are an African American, there is still a wealth of your ancient culture in West Africa. You don't have to scratch too far below the surface in Europe, either. Even in the British Isles, despite the best efforts of the Romans, English, Normans and christianity, much of the lore of the celtic/gaelic people still lasts. We don't get to do much in the way of human sacrifice anymore, but the Beltane fires still get lit....

brighid

Dexter -

There is a wealth of native cultures traditions left in the world. They have evolved in some areas and in others they are nearly identical to what they were thousands of years ago. I think those kinds of things provide an important avenue to learn about our pasts and to enrich our futures.

Just because on is an atheist, does not mean one has to give up on their cultural traditions - even if some of those have gods attached to them. Thankfully, intellect allows us to seperate the real from the unreal while remaining true to our heritages or to the customs we wish to incorporate into our lives from others.

I have wanted to travel to Britian and Ireland for a long time now and it would be awesome to go there during Beltane!!

Brighid