emphryio

Yeah I agree with the outcome too.

I almost hope Leiberman gets the nomination. Then the Greens could easily get 10%. (Not taking computerized voting into account.) Boy that would give the establishment a fit.

Ion

The reasons I don't like Lieberman for U.S. President, are:

.) he is religious and is influenced at least in speeches (maybe in governmental actions too) by religion;

.) he has lots in common with neo-conservatives Perle and Wolfowitz, like supporting the non-sense U.S. war in Iraq for example;

I believe that amongst Democrat candidates for the U.S. Presidency, Carol Moseley-Braun -albeit little known by the public- and Howard Dean, are intelligent and kind enough to people in order to be attractive for the position of U.S. President in 2004.

Ockhamite

No two people will have precisely the same reasoning supporting a voting decision. By whatever circuitous logic I use to decide to not vote for Joe Lieberman for president, millions of others will make the same decision for a million different reasons....any number of which I will think are silly nonsense.

There will be at least a few that will not vote for Bush because his foreign policy is not sufficiently aggressive. I will support their decision to abstain and offer my approval.

It is always disconcerting to hold a similar opinion with someone on the other side of the political spectrum.

Gurdur

I've got a question for all those who use this thread to record a vote against Lieberman.
The thread was startedby a Nazi, who objects to Lieberman mainly because Lieberman is a Jew.

So: to all those of you against Lieberman, is it rather immaterial to you that the OP was racist ?
As long as you could agree that Lieberman is no good ?
Principles be damned ?

ieyeasu

The idea is that, although we find Mark's logic reprehensible, we agree with the outcome regarding Lieberman; that it we be a bad idea to elect him to the presidency.

Sometimes, it is possible to agree with someone you find to be generally idiotic. To classify all arguments from Mark as wrong because they come from the mouth of a Nazi would be an ad hom.

So yes, in this instance, it is immaterial that the OP was from a racist. I still oppose Lieberman.

Gurdur

ROFL !
The next time the Ku Klux Klan or the Nazis make a march demonstrating against say Clarence Thomas or Lieberman, march along with them then.

What logic ?
The only unsupported assertion Mark has made so far is that he doesn't like Jews.
And you're willing to say so on a Nazi's own thread.

You know something ? You're converting me into a Lieberman-voter.
Out of nausea.
Especially if you have principles which are so elastic they're no longer principles.
Codswallop. What a strawman.
Mark doesn't like Jews. Period.
Congratulations on the New Solidarity Front.

I suppose if NAMBLA joined in against Lieberman, it would only be icing on the cake, eh ?

Vorkosigan

Gurdur, this post is totally out of line. It is possible to agree that Lieberman should not be President without embracing anti-Semitism, and the posters to this thread who commented on the issue all managed to do so. Apparently your position is that we should oppose everything that people we dislike advocate, for no other reason than that they advocate it. To use your logic, we should all support rape, since Fundamentalist Christians all oppose it.

For the life of me I can't understand why you made this post. And I can't understand why I stupidly didn't follow my original instinct and shut this thread down, so there wasn't an outbreak of silliness on it. But I thought it might turn into a useful thread on Lieberman and the Presidency, if Alinsky didn't participate. It still might.

Vorkosigan

Gurdur

No it isn't: it's a completely valid line of questioning.
Just to repeat:
The question is:
Under what circumstances are you prepared to be included in a group on an issue ?
ROFL ! Including Mark Alinsky, and those who agreed 100 % with him ?
Apparently your position is to use blatantly false strawmen.
According to your argument, I'm the Queen Of England.
Then maybe you should consider my argument, rather than your strawman.
I will not comment on modding or lack of it.

If posters wanted a good anti-Lieberman thread, it would have been possible to start one afresh and untainted.

And I'm pursuing the issue of why some people are willing to follow on from a Nazi OP.
A valid issue.

echidna

Bye Mark, presumably you�ll scurry back under the safety of your narrow little discussion groups where like-minded xenophobes can rewrite history without the burden of any of those pesky facts. Life must be so much easier when anyone who might dispute your �facts� or even question your assertions, can simply be banned from discussion at the touch of a button.

I hope you�ve noticed that you�ll be retreating from this site however at your own free will, perhaps a final acknowledgement of your lack of substance.

Vorkosigan

Originally posted by Gurdur
No it isn't: it's a completely valid line of questioning.

No, Gurdur, it would have been a valid line of questioning had it not been fenced with "ROFL" and studded with provocative and needless remarks about NAMBLA and the KKK. That made it deliberately insulting and over the line.

Just to repeat:
The question is:
Under what circumstances are you prepared to be included in a group on an issue ?
ROFL ! Including Mark Alinsky, and those who agreed 100 % with him ?

Just to repeat, how does not liking Joe Lieberman personally or for President put me a group with Mark Alinsky?

If posters wanted a good anti-Lieberman thread, it would have been possible to start one afresh and untainted.

The thread had handled itself well, until you decided to toss in NAMBLA, the KKK and the Nazis.

And I'm pursuing the issue of why some people are willing to follow on from a Nazi OP. A valid issue.

Then why not simply ask the question in a restrained manner? As far as I could see, the issue that Alinsky raised, the worthiness of Lieberman, is a valid one worth discussing. It seemed to be moving in that direction.

I was not speaking as a moderator, Gurdur, just someone who has been around a while and seen you post many wonderful posts, and wonders why you felt it necessary to go off like that. For that unclarity, you have my sincere apologies.

Vorkosigan