gsx1138

Convoluted and Hidden are not the same thing. The Bible is nothing more than a method of control. Christianity is the easiest of the religions you are correct there. Throughout its lifespan Christianity has not required its followers to do anything other than obey. There are individuals who choose to take a closer look at their faith but very, very few of the main churches require you to actually study anything other than a few fanciful tales.
As it has been said before, Paganism is both the easiest and the hardest because it allows for both. But from pagan to pagan you better know what you're talking about otherwise noone will take you seriously. So, if you are saying that shallow and advanced are the same thing then your assesment of christianity is correct.
Aquila gave a beautiful description, and yes there are many wiccans in denial about its origins.

111111

All religion is a form of control; from the earliest shamans living in caves and fearful of the night, to the most modern priest or mullah, it's all about control. Wiccans would like to think that their religion is somehow immune to the spectre of control and mindlessness that haunts religions such as Christianity, when in fact it is the reverse. Religion is a plague, no matter it's form, no matter it's origin, and I frankly am disgusted that Wiccans feel that they are any different.

Eschew religion, and embrace spirituality, and you can escape the ghastly spectre of control and bondage.

Ronin

I disagree...you have been promoting the standard christian mystic garbage I am quite familiar with.

You lack the understanding that the word and concept of 'God' is not necessary to give meaning to life or to understand the universe.

Instead, it has been shown to promote more division that peace.

You make my case for me with your empty assertions.

Keep it real, six ones...you're rose water won't sell here.

Ronin

Break out the garlic and crucifix.

...or just be guided by reason, inspired by compassion and informed by experience, and encourage everyone to live life well and fully within the wondrous universe in plain view. (copyright pending 2003)

Calzaer

So... um... who, exactly, am I controlling?

Infidelettante

quote:JTVrocher
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And are you the one who is to show us what is truth Marcel? Please reveal it to us. We will contain our excitement.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:Ronin
We can observe what is real.
Indeed we can.
God(s)ess(es)...even in fanciful form aren't part of the universe.
Indeed they are not.
Guessing, pretending and making new ones up make no difference.
Indeed it will not.
But, if it harm none, believe what you will...however, expect to be called on it at times as well...especially if it gets too nonsensical.
And rightly so.
Science, rational thought and examination of the universe brings about a better understanding of life, love and understanding.
Indeed it does
No deities required...though I am sure six ones will make One to fit it for us and convert it to Christianity at his earliest convenience.
Indeed none are and surely he will

And your point is...

JT

Infidelettante

quote: 111111
I have asked you to explain this. Please do.

In light of my earlier request I ask now that you explain how Wicca is as valid as Christianity and yet less advanced. Is it your contention that Christianity is the more advanced religion because it is easier? Is it your contention that Wicca is a lesser path because it is more difficult?

If you could clear up your assertions regarding religion we may find something worth contending.

JT

Ronin

Well made...and, apparently, seconded.

Infidelettante

Have you ever been to Mass 111111 ? The Catholic Church is one big ritual.

One can belive in the Godhead of Christ and still not be a Christian. As a Pagan polytheist I can readily accept the divine nature of Jesus but I remain a Pagan none-the-less.

Do you mean that the Bible is the greatest accumulation of occult wisdom the world has ever seen? You have, it seems for the second time, laid the Bible at the feet of occultists and claimed they have some special knowlege of it. Those of us here who are Pagans would not go to so much trouble to hide our path from this forum. What is revealed is shared and what is shared is strengthened.

Please let us know what path you follow 111111. We are free with ours and ask that you be as well.

JT

Marcel

No, it is not to me to show the truth to anybody. But I take desirable stories like personal revelations and constructed tales for the prupose of creating a new religion to be more unlikely than that which is perceivable or which has hitherto proven not to be falsifiable.

Why bother making up such things? Why believing in the universal truth of someone else's personal, internal revelations when you can a acquire a pretty good image of the world by sticking to logical or scientific things? Why should nature have divine significance? Why can't nature just be the way organisms and lifeless things behave and exist? I think that, in Wicca and the like, the wish for more personal relations with the world is stronger than logical thinking.