Pyrrho

Yes.

Calzaer

<hijack>
I'm a man, and I'll say straight up that you're being too generous. "Most" men? Try "all but a sparse handful of men in any given geographical area".

The internet, of course, skews this to the extremes, since on one hand you have places like Baptistboard, where all the asshole men congregate to discuss asshole technique, and on the other hand you have places like here, where all the nice men come to help other people out. So in any given internet community, you'll have one or the other, but very rarely the natural mixture inherent in a physical community.

The lesson, of course, is that all men are evil until they can prove otherwise OVER A SUSTAINED PERIOD OF TIME. Because even the devil can quote scripture when it suits his needs.
</hijack>

In any case, I agree completely with LL about pressing charges, although it probably should have been done instantly rather than giving the bastard another chance to cause serious physical injury.

Kim o' the Concrete Jungle

I suspect the sad fact of the matter is that most people are so wrapped up in themselves, their own problems, and their own reactions, that they don't make any serious effort to put themselves into your shoes. Since a violent family dispute such as the one you describe is extremely unpleasant to think about, I suspect most of your male friends are avoiding doing so -- probably by refusing to take the assault seriously (and indeed, several of the posters on this thread aren't taking it seriously).

Perhaps your female friends can only too easily imagine being assaulted. So I guess it comes down to not asking advice from people who aren't capable of truly understanding the problem.

lunachick

LianaLi, a couple of people here have mentioned the word "alone" when you move out of your family home. Is it not normal for people to share accommodation? Over here we have flatmates. A group of people rent a house and share in all bills and household responsibilities. Life can actually be pretty inexpensive this way - and more fun, to boot. Perhaps this could be something to consider.

...just a thought...

Oh, and as for the most men comment - can't that be reduced to "some". I have mostly guy friends and I can talk to them about pretty much anything, and they are there for me. Many of them have been good friends for 15 years or more, now. They are not assholes at all. At least not with me. <shrug>

Thalia

I think this is the real reason. Even though I think that many, many men have been victims of abuse from familys soccer coaches, etc, men are socialised to not see themselves as victims, whereas women do. This has a good and a bad side. The good is that not seeing yourself as a victim may help you keep a sense of agency and an ability to get out. The bad side is, if you are unable to admit to the severity of the problem, you may write it off as, "Well that's life, suck it up." unaware of the real psychologcial damage that is occuring.

I have found that women are way more aware of the ways in which women are victimized, are way more self-protective, and able to understand why certain things are threatening to women (such as images of violence towards women in the media). Once I have taken the time to explain to male friends how women actually talk to each other (I doubt men share their abuse stories!) about their experiences of sexual and physical abuse, derogatory treatment etc, and that all women have experienced this in some way, most have changed their point of view.

BTW- can anyone link to the preceding thread? I don't know the whole story.

I understand all points of view. I grew up with a father with a bad temper, who did things very frightening and psyhcologically harmful, but never crossed the line to actual hitting. He was also a very honest, hardworking, and generous man most of the time who would do anything for his family (save going to a psychiatrist!), and still is. I understand how it is easy to stay with what is at least familiar and predictable, even if it is not right.

Pyrrho

It is interesting to compare this with:


I agree with Calzaer, though I kept it gentler in an effort to avoid offending anyone (though obviously that failed). And, of course, lunachick may be fortunate in her friends, but, if I may be so bold as to suggest something, perhaps a look at some crime statistics about violence against women may change her mind (consider the statistics for the high percentage of women who are assaulted at some point in their lives [and most are assaulted by people they know, such as boyfriends, husbands, etc.], though the numbers are generally lower than reality due to the fact that many women don't report instances of abuse [LianaLi is an example of this, as she has not called the police]; it will be best if you search for these numbers yourselves, so you will know I have not somehow led you to a biased source), or, lunachick, if you don't have a liking for statistics, you might want to visit your local women's shelter to see what real problems look like. Or just remember that O.J. Simpson's ex-wife, even though she reported abuse, was not taken too seriously until she was killed. Then, of course, it was too late to help her at all.

I do not deny that a woman may be fortunate in her situation, but it is certainly not the only situation in life. And lunachick, if you have good friends, then I am happy for you.

And Thalia, I agree that one of the reasons that women are more sympathetic is that women more easily imagine being assaulted, but I think that that is partially due to the fact that more of them are subject to horrible abuse. And I think another reason that men are less likely to be sympathetic with women is that many of them are abusers themselves, so any condemnation of other men doing such things would involve them admitting, at least to themselves, that what they have done is wrong.

For the record, not that this should make any difference, I am a man.

lunachick

I'm well aware that there are battered, raped, abused women and girls out there. I just wonder if statistically it equates to MOST men being the perpetrators of this. MOST is an awful lot of men. I dunno - maybe my luck with male friends is based in cultural differences. <shrug>

Pyrrho

I would guess that New Zealand is better than the U.S. on this, but it is a guess. A friend from Japan was telling me how she felt so much safer in Japan than here in the U.S., and I expect that her feeling was at least somewhat justified (not that Japan has a great tradition of equality for women, but I think the statistics for abuse are worse here). Still, I would expect that you are not treated the way you would be if you were a man. And if that is true, then my condemnation would extend to New Zealand men, like men in most countries.

lunachick

There are good men and there are bad men, Pyrro. Everywhere. Just like with women.

As for NZ, we were the first country to give women the vote. We have an atheist woman Prime Minister and many women in key government and corporate roles. We have many progressive programmes for women of all stripes. But we are not without bad men, and we are not without bad women.

I believe, however - and you can call me naive - that if we focus on the bad ones all the time and not recognise the good, then we are lost in an endless gender war. Needless fear and loathing and self-loathing for ALL people - men, women and children. Not a good place to be. Focus on the strengths, the positives, and maybe a bridge can be built between the sexes, and internally for the individual.

But then again, I'm well aware that I'm a dreamer. Good luck in finding the good in yourself.

Gurdur

*sigh*
Aren't we getting away from the actual topic ?

LianaLi is asking for advice and feedback; and I think exaggerating the pic won't help.

There's a huge difference between "treating women [slightly] differently than men" and actual physical, sexual, emotional or verbal abuse.

I find Pyrrho's view to be too exaggerated in that respect; it seems to me the notion of "abuse" is being bagatellised here in the interest of demonization.
While in some cultures "most" men might be abusers of some kind, I very much doubt that that can be said as a human universal.