Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Glory · 10-08-2002, 07:38 PM

The man claimed to speak for 70 million people. 70 million! That's just delusional.

Glory

joedad · 10-09-2002, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Albion:
I wonder how the Jewish peeople like the idea that they're being supported by the USA at least partly because of end-times prophecy - where they'll cease to exist after being either killed or converted to Chrstianity. It's like the guy said in the article - it's a five-act play and the Jews disappear in Act 4.

Armageddon is Falwell's version of the Nazi final solution. Everything Jewish is just plain gone.

joe

galiel · 10-09-2002, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Albion:
<strong>

Time magazine had a cover story on all this end-times stuff and the Left Behind books a while back. It wouldn't be so frightening (there are fringe nutters in all groups, I suppose) except that some of the White House people believe this stuff. If you look at the CBS "60 Minutes" page, the bit where Jerry Falwell calls Mohammed a terrorist is the least of it. The thing that worried me is that the end-times believers don't want peace in the Middle East, they want Armageddon, and they have the ear of the White House because they claim to represent so many voters.

I wonder how the Jewish peeople like the idea that they're being supported by the USA at least partly because of end-times prophecy - where they'll cease to exist after being either killed or converted to Chrstianity.
</strong>

I don't know how the "Jewish people" feel about it, but, as far as Israel is concerned, they are utterly Machiavellian and don't mind. These are folks who sold police equipment to apartheid South Africa in order to ensure protection of SOuth African Jews. They have engaged in political assassinations under all goverment coalitions, "left" and "right", and they still do not adhere to the Geneva Conventions (I used to carry phosphorous grenades ephemistically labeled "exploding smoke". That was the least of it). There is a deep cultural ethos which cuts across political boundaries in Israel that says that the end of ensuring Israel's survival justifies *any* means.
(Note: I'm an Israeli military veteran, special forces, just to forstall the "antisemitic" knee-jerk accusations by Jewish apologists. I know whereof I speak)

Albion · 10-09-2002, 09:57 AM

Well, my dad has relations in Israel and they're sick about the way the situation has been inflamed and they don't have a single good thing to say about Sharon (or about Arafat, but they do feel for the Palestinian people and they're very worried about American foreign policy). Of course, these are old people, including concentration camp survivors, and they may have a different perspective than the one prevalent among younger age groups.

Edited to say that I remember many years ago my dad saying that the holocaust justified anything Israel needed to do in order to ensure its survival. He isnt' saying that now; he's as fed up with the Israeli government's behaviour as his Israeli cousins are.

[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: Albion ]</p>

galiel · 10-09-2002, 11:00 AM

Of course, one can't claim that any one position is held by *all* Israelis (a popular saying there is that you get two Jews in a room and you have three opinions). But one can speak about overall sentiment and one can definitely speak about the consensus within the Knesset, the Israeli Parliament. I am not relying on anecdotes, I am talking about the historical actions and policies of Israel as a nation.

That does not excuse ANYTHING anyone else does, including the "other side". It is merely an observation. In a community of nations largely governed by amoral considerations, Israel certainly and deliberately stands as the one of, if not the most amoral democracy of all. In fact, that is part of their deterrence--the conviction that, if pushed to the wall, they WILL drop the bomb, they will do anything. Personally, I find that kind of amorality repugnant, which is one of the reasons I don't live there any more.

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10-08-2002, 07:38 PM	#11
Glory Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: b Posts: 673	The man claimed to speak for 70 million people. 70 million! That's just delusional. Glory

10-09-2002, 09:57 AM	#14
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	Well, my dad has relations in Israel and they're sick about the way the situation has been inflamed and they don't have a single good thing to say about Sharon (or about Arafat, but they do feel for the Palestinian people and they're very worried about American foreign policy). Of course, these are old people, including concentration camp survivors, and they may have a different perspective than the one prevalent among younger age groups. Edited to say that I remember many years ago my dad saying that the holocaust justified anything Israel needed to do in order to ensure its survival. He isnt' saying that now; he's as fed up with the Israeli government's behaviour as his Israeli cousins are. [ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: Albion ]</p>

10-09-2002, 11:00 AM	#15
galiel Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Eastern Massachusetts Posts: 1,677	Of course, one can't claim that any one position is held by all Israelis (a popular saying there is that you get two Jews in a room and you have three opinions). But one can speak about overall sentiment and one can definitely speak about the consensus within the Knesset, the Israeli Parliament. I am not relying on anecdotes, I am talking about the historical actions and policies of Israel as a nation. That does not excuse ANYTHING anyone else does, including the "other side". It is merely an observation. In a community of nations largely governed by amoral considerations, Israel certainly and deliberately stands as the one of, if not the most amoral democracy of all. In fact, that is part of their deterrence--the conviction that, if pushed to the wall, they WILL drop the bomb, they will do anything. Personally, I find that kind of amorality repugnant, which is one of the reasons I don't live there any more.

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