Arrowman

Hello, ILMM, and welcome.

I agree with Wyz_sub10 that a logical argument and your list is not the best way to begin this conversation with your parents. But, what's done is done. May I suggest a rough outline of the sort of letter you might like to use. Perhaps some of the phrases might stick in your throat, but give it a try.... or at least, modify to suit yourself. Just try to maintain the tone at calm, respectful, rational, and wanting to maintain your relationship (even if right now, in the heat of the moment, that is the last thing you can imagine). If nothing else, an exchange on these lines will leave you with the comfort that you at least have tried the "righteous path".

(By the way, I think your list is very good, although I think as a working document (manifesto? ) you need to distinguish between the concepts of "discarding" religion and "opposing" religion. In other words, the difference between "why religion is not for me" and "why I do not think religion is for anyone". But that's a discussion for another time - right now, I'd like to talk about dealing with your parents.)

-----------------
Dear Mum and Dad
(whoops, sorry - "Mom and Dad" )

I was very sorry to receive your e-mail, and to hear your attitude to my change in religious beliefs. Perhaps my initial response, in sending you list of reasons for opposing religion, was not the best way to start our discussions on this matter; after all, as parents and son we do not necessarily have to debate these matters so strongly, at least for now. Perhaps one day we may discuss these things, but for now it is more important to me that we establish a mutual respect in this changed circumstance.

In your e-mail you asked, or required, a number of things from me in return for your future financial support.

You ask me to declare myself "agnostic" instead of "atheist". I wonder if you appreciate how impossible it is for a person to simply change their beliefs at the request of another. Would you renounce your Christianity under similar circumstances? I certainly would not expect that of you; much as I might not share your religious beliefs, I respect them and their importance to you. I hope you can demonstrate a respect for my beliefs also; whether you agree with them or not, at least understand that they are not a fashion or a whim to be discarded at another's request in return for financial support (or worse, their love and respect).

You ask me to quit the campus atheist/agnostic club, and stop looking at "anti-Christian things" on the internet. On the surface these things are perhaps less serious than asking me to change my beliefs - but, on the other hand, they represent a degree of control over my daily life that no-one should be expected to endure. Ask me to not drink and drive; ask me to not do drugs; ask me anything that a caring parent would ask of their son. But, ask me to not meet with certain people whose only "fault" is that they do not share your religion? Ask me to not read certain material?

You are my parents, and I love you. I love you for many reasons including the support you have given me throughout my life until now. I do not love you any the less because I no longer share your religious beliefs. I do not want to believe that your love for me is conditional on our sharing religious beliefs. I do not want to believe that our relationship will be so severely damaged by that fact.

This is not just about money. Of course my life will be less easy without your financial support, but if that is what is to be, then I will support myself. No - this is not just about money. Far more important to me is that we maintain a loving relationship as a family, and a mutual respect for each other. Failure to respect a person's sincere beliefs on religion is perhaps as serious a mark of disrespect as any human being can show for another. Is that what you want for our future relationship? I hope not.

(now insert some personal good news on non-religious matters)

With Love
Your Son,
etc.

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Arrowman ]</p>

babelfish

Arrowman,

I don't know if ILMM will follow your suggestions, but that is one great letter!

Awesome!

Hobbs

Oh, hell, if they are going to react that childishly, what does their opinion matter, and why make such a big deal out of principle and integrity with people who are treating you like that? Why not just tell them whatever bullshit they want to hear until your college is paid for and you are on your own, then later you can say whatever the hell you want to them, or nothing at all if you prefer.

Oxymoron

I liked Arrowman's letter, but felt it was a little over conciliatory, and raises a difficult issue: to what extent do atheists "respect" believers beliefs?

I can quite understand according people the right to believe whatever they damn well want - no matter how irrational - and to act on that so long as it harms no other individual, institution or animal.

The thing is, ILMM clearly believes that his parents beliefs and actions do lead to harming individuals, institutions, probably animals too, as we can see from the list.

The parents' response was immature and petty, and I think the poster can ask them only to grow up and agree to disagree - in as tactful a fashion as possible. But undermining one's own beliefs to make yourself more acceptable to others is a dangerous path to take. Then again, parents and children have a special relationship. Is this a special case? It's a tough call...

Wyz_sub10

His parents may be stinging more from what they see as a rejection of them then of Christianty.

I could see my mom being upset because my atheism would imply that I thought she was stupid or that I was not influenced by her growing up. Both of these are not the case, however, but I doubt I could make her understand the *real* issue.

His parents are definitely being unfair, but I think it's a bigger issue for them than what ILMM thinks happens when you die.

rebelnerd

What Hobbs said, with the addition of:

If they are going to blackmail(?) you about this, you owe them nothing in the way of integrity. If they are being shallow enough to stoop to this level, they are too insecure in their belief system to allow a dissenting opinion to stand. Why force a battle that can be fought later?

Edited to add: Nice list!

Filo

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Filo Quiggens ]</p>

Living Dead Chipmunk

That's exactly what I've been doing for the last three years! Praise Jeebus!

Rusting Car Bumper

I agree with Arrowman's approach. I would start by saying, "I am saddened that you have chosen to reject loving your own child in favor of an abstract belief system."

You can also take the moral upper hand and say, "Even though you've chosen a display of hatred toward your own child, I will still love you and be there to support you regadless of your chosen beliefs."

I would also remind them that you are an adult.

DC

Bad Religion

Yeah, I like the letter too, but the list is fun....


18) Because people fly airplanes into buildings for their god.

Arrowman

Thanks babelfish

Hobbs: I agree. I would not have any moral problem with deceiving someone in those circumstances. - that is, where I genuinely and deeply believe that their reaction has been unfair and irrational, and their proposals unjust.

It's ILMM's call as to which approach is best; he's the "man in the field".

Oxymoron: I certainly agree that people are not automatically entitled to respect for their religious beliefs, especially when those beliefs result in harm to others. And perhaps ILMM will find parts of my letter "overly conciliatory"; his call as to how he would word it in detail.

I just think that if ILMM wishes to achieve the goals of (a) maintaining financial support from his parents while (b) maintaining his beliefs (assuming he doesn't decide to go the equally valid "tell them what they want to hear" approach) and (c) having the satisfaction of knowing that he approached the problem with thought, and didn't just throw gasoline on the fire, then the letter is the best way to do that.

You don't have to outright lie to be diplomatic (and achieve your own ends). It's very early days, remember; plenty of time to turn up the heat if/when it is clear that there's no point in diplomacy any more.

There's another aspect to that, too. When you have a disagreement with someone on such a personal and emotional subject, you (well I do anyway) at least want to stand a chance of being understood, if not agreed with. ILMM's parents may never understand, but one thing's for sure - there's absolutely no chance if he starts with outright confrontation. And if ILMM's relationship with his parents is to break down completely over this (sorry ILMM, but I'm sure you realise this is a possibility) then for his own peace of mind at least let it be despite his efforts, no because (in part) of them. For his own peace of mind.

I'll shut up now