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Old 07-25-2003, 06:35 AM   #61
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Default Re: Chew on this one...

Quote:
Originally posted by Suburban
The appearance of the first living cell requires the following:

- The accidental creation of a functional strand of DNA. This represents one chance in 10^600 (10 to the 600th power, a 1 followed by 600 zeroes).

- The accidental creation of the 2,000 proteins needed as enzymes by cells. This represents odds of 1 in 10^40,000.

- The simultaneous accidental creation of all the necessary components of the most primitive form of life, assembled in the correct configuration. The odds against this are not even reasonably calculable.

Statistically, any odds greater than 1 in 10^50 are considered impossible. What does that say for DNA with odds 10^550 times greater, or the odds against the synthesis of the 2,000 proteins, which are 10^39,950 times greater?

Consider the creation of a viable cell by random processes, and ponder the statistical nighmare that involves:

- The odds against a perfect mixture of chemicals in the right place

- The odds against an external influence that is perfectly suited to creating life from the chemicals

- The odds against creating a functional cell membrane

- The odds against creating cytoplasm

- The odds against creating functional organelles within the cyoplasm

- The odds against creating a nucleus within the cytoplasm

- The odds against creating a properly-coded DNA strand

- The odds against creating all the necessary amino acids and proteins to support the DNA

- The odds against containing the DNA along with its support chemicals within the nucleus

- The odds against all of that being contained within the cell membrane

- The odds against the environment of the cell being hospitable to life

- The odds against there being nutrients available for the cell

- The odds against the DNA being matched to the cell

- The odds against the DNA being coded to initiate mitosis

Each of these defies statistical odds that any rational statistician would consider absolutely impossible. Yet we are to believe that EVERY ONE of these impossible things occured simultaneously.

Let's imagine that the entire populace of the Earth sat down in groups of four to play bridge, and each of them was dealt a perfect hand once each minute for 50 years. Would you say that's impossible?

Compare that to the odds cited above, and the premise of the perfect bridge hands is a certainty in comparison.

The notion of a functioning cell arising other than by special creation is so ludicrous that it cannot be seriously entertained by anyone with even the most tenuous grasp on reality.

I know the argument: "Well, despite the odds, it evidently DID happen." Why did it "evidently" happen? Because evolutionism mandates it. Period.

Life appeared on Earth fron non-life...and evolutionism cannot accept that it was the product of intelligent design. They would rather believe that a ludicrous combination of accidents involving a probability of one chance in 10 to the power of some five- or six-figure number is more credible than an act of creation.

And you dare to call Creationists unscientific.
And you dare to introduce new assertions without backing up your previous assertions regarding the number of species and your warped interpretation of the burgess shale formation.

Quote:
Yet we are to believe that EVERY ONE of these impossible things occured simultaneously.
Actually you're the first person I've heard claim that these events occurred simultaneously. Your assertions consitute a substantial pervertion of most abiogenetic hypotheses.

This type of misunderstanding is on par with people that discount evolutionary theory because it's impossible for sufficient mutations to line up such that a cephalopod gives birth to a teleost or even for a chimp to give birth to a human and thus the new species is born.

I'll assume then that you understand neither abiogenesis related hypotheses and theories or evolutionary theory.
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Old 07-25-2003, 06:46 AM   #62
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Default Re: Re: Re: No, you chew on this one... careful it doesn't stick in your throat

Quote:
Originally posted by Oolon Colluphid
Uh-oh. Bellman's fallacy!

Because it's a fourth delension gerund, via Middle English polyquantitative inflection.

Oolon
It's "declension" you ignoramus.
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Old 07-25-2003, 06:53 AM   #63
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Default Re: Hmmmm....

Quote:
Originally posted by Suburban
To propose that every species on Earth arose from one common ancestor is preposterous (to be kind). The Burgess Shale should be enough proof for anyone that the number of species has been in decline for some time (whether that be hundreds of thousands or billions of years is absolutely irrelevant).
And this statement should be enough proof for anyone that you are getting your facts from a very unreliable source. You see, there are millions of species on the earth today, whereas there may be 100-200 or so species described from the Burgess Shale, and every single one of them are invertebrates. So your 'proof' of species decline is really proof only of your ignorance about the Burgess Shale. In fact, I bet you can't find a single paleontologist who works on the Burgess Shale who would agree that species-level diversity has experienced a net decrease since Cambrian time.

Patrick
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Old 07-25-2003, 06:57 AM   #64
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Talking Typos

Quote:
Originally posted by CX
It's "declension" you ignoramus.
'Delension' was a typo... whereas the rest of it was made up bullshit... hey, sounds like Ed's definition of a typo...
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Old 07-25-2003, 08:42 AM   #65
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"NAtural selection is a fairytale"?

This reminds me of mturner's many confrontations with the "legless cheetah". He kept arguing that natural selection was baloney, but was repeatedly forced to admit that a cheetah born with no legs as a result of a congenital defect would be unlikely to survive and pass on its genes. Then he'd just forget about that and revert to "natural selection doesn't happen" mode again...
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Old 07-26-2003, 08:54 AM   #66
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Default Re: Chew on this one...

Quote:
Originally posted by Suburban
Statistically, any odds greater than 1 in 10^50 are considered impossible.
Nonsense. Shuffle a deck of cards thoroughly and write down what order they're in. The odds of getting that exact sequence are 1 in 52! (52 factorial, or 52 * 51 * ... * 3 * 2), which is less likely than 1 in 10^67, as you can check on a computer algebra system. Surely you don't claim that statisticians disbelieve in the existence of playing cards?

Hmm...this reply is a little late I think...ah well.
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Old 07-26-2003, 04:26 PM   #67
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However it is a good example. It is a bit like the lottery where it is "impossible" to win but someone does!

I think people make a result "special" like the order of your deck of cards and therefore forget that all of the others are not "equally special."

--J.D.
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Old 07-27-2003, 01:36 AM   #68
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Personally I think he is full of it.
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Old 07-27-2003, 02:55 AM   #69
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It seems the very human attempt to try to meld reality to what we would like it to be. It is a bit like a person who thinks he is the next Caruso . . . provided he confines his Nesun Dormina to his shower, he is fine.

Should he try it in public. . . .

He has a couple of choices in response to the flying fruit and death threats:

1. Take lessons.
2. Confine his singing to his shower.
3. Declare everyone else in the world is a tasteless peasant.

For some, option three--pigheaded denial--carries less threat. So they will believe in whatever absurdity to save the precious myth.

--J.D.
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Old 07-27-2003, 06:20 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doctor X
It seems the very human attempt to try to meld reality to what we would like it to be. It is a bit like a person who thinks he is the next Caruso . . . provided he confines his Nesun Dormina to his shower, he is fine.
Minor nit - Enrico Caruso died in 1921 and Puccinis Turandot with Nessun dorma premiered in 1926. But Caruso would certainly have sung this part if he had been alive.
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