Freethought & Rationalism Archive

spacedOut · 08-03-2003, 06:22 PM

At the affluent church I used to attend, I remember members reassuring themselves that it was the LOVE of money and not the money itself that made it tough to get into heaven.

Because if it WAS the money, then... well... hmmmm...

Let's talk about something else...

Ronin · 08-03-2003, 09:34 PM

Quote:

was this thread really an attempt to study this passage in its context?

Yes...and we're doing swimmingly.

fatherphil · 08-04-2003, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ronin
Yes...and we're doing swimmingly.

based on the majority of posts thus far, i'd have to disagree with your statement.

sakrilege · 08-04-2003, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fatherphil
based on the majority of posts thus far, i'd have to disagree with your statement.

Out of curiosity, do you have answers to my questions?

Doctor X · 08-04-2003, 04:34 PM

Indeed . . . waiting. . . .

--J.D.

diana · 08-04-2003, 06:50 PM

From this site:

Quote:

The original Greek tells not of a camel, but a rope (kamilos ). When it was translated into Latin, kamilos was confused with kamelos ( camel).

This translation error has been perpetuated into almost every language in which the Scriptures has been printed.

The Scriptural statements are almost identical to each other in English. There is some variation in Greek. The needle in MattithYAH [Matthew] and YAHchanan Mark [Mark] is a rafic. In Luke it is a belone. Both refer to needles used in sewing.

It certainly makes more sense. But it puts Christians in a bit more of a bind justifying their religion in light of their comparative wealth.

d

Rational BAC · 08-04-2003, 06:58 PM

OK---------

It is more difficult for a rich man to get to heaven than for a rope to go through the eye of a needle?

Still sounds awful hard to do.

Rich people are screwed either way.

fatherphil · 08-05-2003, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sakrilege
And how rich is rich? The top 1%? or 10%? And compared to who else? In the USA, I am not rich but compared to many other countries I am. And does it apply to rich women?

i figure if you are not worrying about where your next meal is going to come from or where you are going to sleep, then you are rich. and yes, i figure it applies to all genders.

HaysooChreesto! · 08-05-2003, 03:18 PM

What I get from it is that if one holds material posessions to be of higher importance than Jebus and Himself/His Dad then they're bound for brimstone.

That said. Fuck that. I'll echo another's sentiment by pointing out that supposedly God has all the riches imaginable but for some reason can't see his way clear to help out a few million starving kids when he's perfectly capable. Or is God not giving them anything they can't handle? I'm drifting so I'll leave it at that.

sakrilege · 08-06-2003, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fatherphil
i figure if you are not worrying about where your next meal is going to come from or where you are going to sleep, then you are rich.

I think this threshold may be a little low. IMO, it would be more like the working poor, those who can earn enough to survive but not enough to do anything else. I don't think those living hand to mouth could have taken the time to follow jesus except to beg from others.

I also don't think it is just the love of money, that it is the possesion of money that matters. Though it certainly is possible to love money without possessing it. From the verses that follow, the bold text is the criteria jesus is using to determine who is denied heaven, and the possession of money is mentioned more than just the love or trust in money.

Mar 10:23-25
And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Mat 19:23-24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

I do have to wonder how people in the United States can be considered heaven bound when compared to the rest of the world given these verses.

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08-03-2003, 06:22 PM	#21
spacedOut Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Heart of Dixie Posts: 104	At the affluent church I used to attend, I remember members reassuring themselves that it was the LOVE of money and not the money itself that made it tough to get into heaven. Because if it WAS the money, then... well... hmmmm... Let's talk about something else...

08-04-2003, 04:34 PM	#25
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Indeed . . . waiting. . . . --J.D.

08-04-2003, 06:58 PM	#27
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	OK--------- It is more difficult for a rich man to get to heaven than for a rope to go through the eye of a needle? Still sounds awful hard to do. Rich people are screwed either way.

08-05-2003, 03:18 PM	#29
HaysooChreesto! Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: SoCal USA Posts: 7,737	What I get from it is that if one holds material posessions to be of higher importance than Jebus and Himself/His Dad then they're bound for brimstone. That said. Fuck that. I'll echo another's sentiment by pointing out that supposedly God has all the riches imaginable but for some reason can't see his way clear to help out a few million starving kids when he's perfectly capable. Or is God not giving them anything they can't handle? I'm drifting so I'll leave it at that.

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