Bubba

The problem is that we don't always think in black and white or yes or no ways. For instance, take abortion. Most people believe somewhere along a continuous band of thought from "always wrong" to "always right" It's not irrational to allow perhaps abortion in the case of rape but not to allow it in the case of a woman who is two hours away from giving birth.

I think most peoples belief in God is along the same lines. For instance, look at Rufus Atticus and Wildernesse who are husband and wife and post here at infidels. I think Rufus would be 95% sure that there is no God, but willing to consider the evidence. Perhaps Wildernesse would be 80% sure that God exists and Christianity is true. I don't wish to put words in their mouths, but reading there posts this is the impression that I get.

Perhaps many hardened thiests are the same way. Having talked in depth to a number of my friends who are hardened theists, I do know that many have a few nights of anguish where they lay sleepless memorizing what the bedroom ceiling looks like as they contemplate the idea of God. Helen M, while not really a hardened theist posted here once that anyone who was absolutely sure was nuts. (or something to that extent)

Again, I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth. But I'm not sure that most thiests don't doubt much more than they are given credit for.

In Darwin

Bubba

Odemus

If I cease to exist after I die, I will be thoroughly convinced there is no God.

Apart from that, my doubt in the existence of God increases with age. I still badly want there to be a God though.

Theli

"My car is not blue", a ferfectly negative claim. And I can prove it.

yguy

I don't think there's an "invisible man in the sky" either. I also don't pray, although I think there may be something in it for some people.

The problem you have is that you think God's existence is ridiculous, so you can hardly help but trivialize the idea by linking it with chimerical concepts. Since God cannot be conceptualized, it follows that those who worship a God who CAN be conceptualized - whethere it be the "Christian God" (invisible man in the sky), Hindu gods, or Allah - don't worship God. This, I believe, is one reason for the commandment against graven images.

I had a conversation with a lady which led to her realizing she had resented her mother from an early age because she'd been unjustly punished. I saw it before she did, because I was a dispassionate observer. Do you really think she didn't know she resented her mother? Obviously she did, but she didn't realize it until I pointed it out to her; i.e., she didn't know she knew. So I suppose you could liken it to a seed which remains dormant in dry soil and germinates when moisture finds it.

Nowhere357

Yes, this is an example of a negative claim which can be proven.

As Richard Carrier shows with his Proving a Negative article in the II library, however, your example is actually a positive claim.

To see the difference, try and imagine proof that the invisible pink unicorn is not blue.

Eric H

Hello Diana,
quote
What would it take to convince you that God (or your god of choice, I'm not picky) doesn't exist?
-----------------------


No one can prove to me that God exists; I have to prove it to myself in some way.

The greatest commandment says I should believe God exists and I should love God, but I can’t even prove that God exists.

Based on something I cannot prove, I am then commanded to love my neighbours, and also love my enemies.

Loving ones neighbour is acceptable, loving an enemy, a child molester, a drug dealer, a mugger, takes a great deal of faith in a loving God.

Faith in God requires a voluntary code, which encourages a person to help others and expect nothing in return, not even any recognition or thanks.

Faith in God is not easy, and it demands that you go beyond what is comfortable in some way.

Faith in the Christian God was a very slow process for me, and is not easy.

Now that I have some faith in a Christian God, I would like this to grow, so that I will be encouraged to do more in a practical way.

It is not so much to see Christ in oneself; rather it is to see Christ in others. As Christ said what you do to the least of these brothers of mine so you do unto me.

I hope there is nothing that will convince me that this God does not exist.

Peace

Eric

The_Unknown_Banana

Yes, that was a rather general statement of mine wasn't it? Perhaps the hardened theists I've met have either been unwilling to show any doubt, or they are in fact beyond doubt. Suffice to say, I have met people like this - people who, when countered with an argument they can't refute, will merely say that it can't be right and then go on praising God. (If their intention is to show the amount of confidence they have in their belief, it doesn't work. It just screams "closed minded" to me)

Still, that's the minority of people I've met anyway.

I would argue, however, that the bible does discourage 'doubt' of any kind in your faith. Surely to seriously consider an imperfection in God's perfect word would be a neglect of your 'faith'?

Bubba

That's the rub of it...once you start questioning one thing (for me it WAS imperfection in Thor's creation) doubt becomes inevitable. Ironically, I have a friend who is a pagan who suggests that Job questioning God was a good thing and that the bible says that it is our moral obligation to question God.

In Darwin

Bubba

pariah

why would an atheist need to prove christianity false? if you assert something the burden of proof lies on you

diana

yguy,

Of course, my examples and comments were my explanation of why I don't believe your assertion that infants are born knowing God exists.

I've already asked you once to support your assertion. Please try again.

d