Bree

So basically you're saying you can't be a good person (i.e. live the way you want to live on the last day of your life) without a crutch? Or is this a reversion to the "man has an inheirantly sinful nature" argument?

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Bree ]</p>

Mad Kally

You were right this time!

Celsus

Hi all,

I think there is a tendency to caricaturise any "outside" group, and as long as its mostly harmless humour, it needn't be a problem. The problem is in believing and then applying the caricature to real people. Obviously I know nothing about Theist Gal, but we needn't automatically assume that someone taking on a label is necessarily assuming all the theological baggage as well.

I've been pissed off in the past with some of the over-generalisations of Christians before, but I won't bring them up at this point. I commend Theist Gal for doing whatever she felt was consistent with her way of life and thinking, and don't see any problem with people changing their beliefs. Stranger things have happened.

Personally, I cannot even begin to envisage any steps that might lead me to reconsider the values or beliefs I have now (maybe a saltation? ) If atheists (myself included) are so obsessed with being right (hence "No True Atheist ever deconverts"), then we should apply the same consistency that caused us (I hope) to come to our conclusions - asking before judging. A couple (or thousands) of words on a website is surely not representative of a person.

As people have repeated to the theists who drive-by, atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god/gods. So there is no reason why a True Atheist (tm) cannot then take on a belief in a god/gods. Whether or not the decision was based on rational or emotive or psychotic or whatever reasons is another issue. Pinning everything down to a narrow set of reasons (in this case Theist Gal's ex), is a highly annoying tactic usually reserved for ignorant and idiotic Christians. This of course comes from personal experience...

Now a final question, because I'm curious. Theist Gal, did you ever consider yourself a skeptic? And if yes, do you still consider yourself a skeptic? No judgment here I assure you, but I'm quite curious as to reasons for becoming less skeptical (because I wish I could be less skeptical sometimes, and subsequently less cynical).

Gurdur

Actually, I must make one more response before I duck out to compose my odes to joy for this thread later.
__________

MOST IMPORTANTLY:

To Cheap Thrill:

Hey, MANY thanks for your Private Message, which explained everything.

I will take this opportunity to unreservedly apologise to Cheap Thrill for my aspersions on his character, and for my abrasive tone towards him.
I have only just found out who Cheap Thrill is; and now I can see where he's coming from, and we need people like him.
________________

Eh, why should I ?
You're talking to the wrong atheist, since I do not and never have either believed in or practiced unconditional acceptance.
Moreover, atheists have no one single moral stance on anything.

Hey, you can accept me as I am or not. I'm none too worried about it.
_____________

heh, heh, heh, you couldn't think of anything more intelligent or rational than this ?


Take your own advice, Kally !

_______________________

Samhain,
I'm nowhere near finished !

Just got back from a massive three-way argument (between me, another bloke who's supposed to be helping me on this, and the selling assistants) on what tiles and what borders and what cement to use.
Bleeeerrrrrch.
Anyway, I won the arguments, owing to my superior rationality, my greater logicality, and my absolute pig-headedness.
(actually, a more important point is aesthetics, but hey, I think my choice was OK).
Will put up pix soon.
BTW, thanks for asking !

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Gurdur ]</p>

windsofchange

It's pretty obvious from the responses I'm reading here that no matter how honest and open I try to be about my reasons (and there ARE more than one, btw) for returning to the Church (losing 400 ugly pounds of boyfriend was just one ), *someone's* going to take offense!

No problem - as I said before, I only came in here because I was asked to respond - it's not my intention to hang around and get into endless arguments (again!) <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> Let me just say one thing before I head back to real life.

As some of you may remember, my web site was originally titled "Jesus is Dead - Get Over It!" which was good for a chuckle. But Cliff Walker, of the wonderful Positive Atheism site (www.positiveatheism.org), made me realize that if you are really interested in talking *with* people rather than *at* them, it's not really helpful to start out by ridiculing them.

Whether you're an atheist or a theist, Cliff has some important things to say about getting along with people you disagree with, and I hope you'll pay a visit to his site.

(Not to mention mine - I appreciate all the hits! Actually, until someone started this thread & notified me about it, I was giving serious thought to deleting my site altogether - aren't you glad you gave me the incentive to keep it? )

Love,
TG :-)

(P.S. Hot Stock Tip of the Day - Buy Worldcom! Word on the street says it's got nowhere to go but up! )

Samhain

LOL, it's funny, actually, I think I would really like to see those pics. I'm not much for designing, etc. myself. Hell, wear the same type of clothes everyday outside of work, in different colors, just so I don't have to go to the trouble of actually choosing what I want to wear (lazy you say? HA! ). For some reason though I think I want to see if all that work is worth it, LOL Anyhow, keep us updated on it. Are you going for a particular style or theme, or are you just doing a basic renovation?

Gurdur

Hey, stop worrying, Theist Gal, you should see what I am going to do with regards to be offensive to some !
still, like, I said before, it would be nice if you checked in here more often, and not just to defend yourself.
___________

Samhain,

The house is over 100 years old, and desperately needed a lot of work.
The renovation is basically whatever takes my fancy, in keeping with the original character of the house - it's an interesting house in its own way.

Anway, I really must go now and compose my long, long odes to atheist and tolerant joy for this thread and the other two I've promised.

Hey, BTW, I'm the same with clothing as you are.
I stick with several pairs of black jeans and a few generic blue shirts.
____________

Hey, Panta Pei, thanks !, but forgive me please if I do use the opportunity to offload some stuff I wanted to post on "Community" and whatnot anyway - it's kind of a golden opportunity, so please forgive me if I don't join with the poses just yet (oh, and BTW, I loved the subtle point you made ! )

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Gurdur ]</p>

windsofchange

Aw shucks, thanks, Gurdur <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> ! But you're doing such a nice job of it for me - and I am feeling so lazy these days I just might have to hire you to sit on on ALL my chat boards for me!

Seriously, I have bookmarked the page & updated my profile, so I'll probably be back. Didn't mean to sound like I was saying, "Hey, you don't like me, so I'm takin' my ball and goin' home! <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> " Nah, I'm not *that* thin-skinned!

Just that I'm heavily involved with (let me see) one, two, three - good grief - FOUR other chat/bbs and frankly, there's only so much argumentation - excuse me! - healthy debate my stomach can take in a given period. But I'll be around ... somewhere ... and when you least expect it - POW! Theist Gal Retoins, nyuk nyuk!*

Love,
TG
(* did I mention I also have a Three Stooges web site? I did? Oh well, couldn't hoit to mention it again, nyuk nyuk! )

ishalon

[Edit: I am developing a bad habit of not thinking enough before posting when influenced by others (G's attitude of support, which is partly right and so are others) which i will try hard to break]

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: ishalon ]</p>

Wizardry

ishalon

Poor form.