Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Derec · 06-24-2003, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monkeybot
Don't you think the extreme poverty of Benton Harbor might have had a tiny bit of influence on the case as well?

And how is smashing things going to solve their poverty exactly?
Did they have lots and lots of insurance for all that stuff or what?

UMoC

Lestat de Lioncourt · 06-24-2003, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by livius drusus
But stats aside, the article in the OP was claiming the mass-media was somehow coddling the rioters by not drawing the racial conclusions the editor has drawn, but I've seen college beer riot after sports riot presented on TV as little more than high spirits run amock...

Dumb fans (which includes all races present) acting like hooligans destroying property after a sports game hardly compares to one race of people bent on destruction and putting others (even their own) in harms way, not to mention defiance of authority (attacking police, firefighters trying to stop fires, etc.) just because of a 'perceived' injustice or racial issue. They are two completely different circumstances. Neither type of rioting is the right answer, naturally, but what got both started and who were involved are completely different. As Loren pointed out, the former wasn't about race while the latter was.

Quote:

The op and title of this thread clearly state that the Benton Harbor rioters were overreacting...

Given the facts of the case, what would you call it? A reasonable reaction!

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...or playing the race card or getting suckered by rabble rousers like Jesse Jackson

Jackson was there after the fact.

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...that it was senseless savagery.

Do you have a better term to use that would describe the extreme cruelty they put their entire community through?

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My point is that white people burning and looting because they got an open container citation is senseless on a whole other scale.

Name one riot that started just because someone got a 'open container citation.'

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I think that rage, although self-defeating in many ways, is still a perfectly understandable reaction to despair.

Even if it is at the expense of others? It's one thing to destroy your own home and property but to take your personal rage out on others is completely asinine and devoid of any understandable reason.

Quote:

If it's response blown out of all proportion Lestat seeks, he need look no further than his local college campus the night of a big game.

Sorry to disappoint you bub, but there haven't been any "riots" at any of the college campus' where I live.

Lestat

Monkeybot · 06-24-2003, 11:50 AM

:banghead:

Nobody is saying that rioting is a good thing, or a useful solution, or that it's even rational.

What people are saying is that it's a symptom of deeper problems, such as perhaps the extreme poverty and economic depression of the town, as well as possible racism on the part of the police force (I am not saying this is necessarily the case, but it's a possibility). If this particular police chase hadn't sparked the riots, I'd wager something else would've invariably done it.

I just think this situation is a lot more complex than a simple black/white issue.

Lestat de Lioncourt · 06-24-2003, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monkeybot
Don't you think the extreme poverty of Benton Harbor might have had a tiny bit of influence on the case as well?

Are you trying to say that just because someone has less money and material goods than another that it's okay to start and/or partake in a riot destroying another person's material goods and harming their person?

Lestat

Loren Pechtel · 06-24-2003, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monkeybot
Don't you think the extreme poverty of Benton Harbor might have had a tiny bit of influence on the case as well?

It might explain why it happened but it in no way justifies it.

It's part of the usual thing, Jesse Jackson et al blame whitey for everything that's wrong in the black community, so when some black fool basically kills himself they go blaming whitey.

Dr Rick · 06-24-2003, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UglyManOnCampus
If the rioters restricted themselves to destroying their property and property of other willing participants then you would have a point. When they start attacking other people and destroy their property it violates their rights from the BoR. So it is neither morally right nor legal.

"On the evening of December 16, 1773, three companies of fifty men each, masquerading as Mohawk Indians, passed through a tremendous crowd of spectators, went aboard the three ships, broke open the tea chests, and heaved them into the harbor. As the electrifying news of the Boston "tea party" spread, other seaports followed the example and staged similar acts of resistance of their own."

Loren Pechtel · 06-24-2003, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nikolai
Can you provide a list of companies which use strict quotas when hiring? You do realize that's illegal, according to the recent Supreme Court rulling?

Of course companies aren't going to admit it. That would give whites a perfect justification for a lawsuit.

The problem is that companies are caught in the middle by unreasonable laws. If you don't want to be sued you better have enough minorities--but it's not legal to hire on that basis. There's no sane and legal course for them to follow. Of course the result is deception.

Loren Pechtel · 06-24-2003, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monkeybot
:banghead:

Nobody is saying that rioting is a good thing, or a useful solution, or that it's even rational.

What people are saying is that it's a symptom of deeper problems, such as perhaps the extreme poverty and economic depression of the town, as well as possible racism on the part of the police force (I am not saying this is necessarily the case, but it's a possibility). If this particular police chase hadn't sparked the riots, I'd wager something else would've invariably done it.

I just think this situation is a lot more complex than a simple black/white issue.

Try racism on the part of Jesse Jackson and friends. He does more harm to the blacks than the KKK ever did.

Lestat de Lioncourt · 06-24-2003, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Rick
"On the evening of December 16, 1773, three companies of fifty men each, masquerading as Mohawk Indians, passed through a tremendous crowd of spectators, went aboard the three ships, broke open the tea chests, and heaved them into the harbor. As the electrifying news of the Boston "tea party" spread, other seaports followed the example and staged similar acts of resistance of their own."

Why are people insistent on comparing incomparable events?

Lestat

Lestat de Lioncourt · 06-24-2003, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
Try racism on the part of Jesse Jackson and friends. He does more harm to the blacks than the KKK ever did.

I'll second that! :notworthy

Lestat

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06-24-2003, 11:50 AM	#53
Monkeybot Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8,102	:banghead: Nobody is saying that rioting is a good thing, or a useful solution, or that it's even rational. What people are saying is that it's a symptom of deeper problems, such as perhaps the extreme poverty and economic depression of the town, as well as possible racism on the part of the police force (I am not saying this is necessarily the case, but it's a possibility). If this particular police chase hadn't sparked the riots, I'd wager something else would've invariably done it. I just think this situation is a lot more complex than a simple black/white issue.

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