Atticus_Finch

I don't want to restart the whole "Evolution vs. Creation" debate, however, I am certain that you have no factual or logical basis to assert as a matter of fact, as opposed to belief, that Adam and Eve never existed. I would hope that the "skeptics" would operate on the same standards of proof and logic that they insist on for Christians.

To answer your question, original sin is attributed to Adam alone, not Eve. However, we are each morally responsible for our own sins. Have you ever lied, cheated, stolen, fornicated or committed adultery, etc.? If so, you have sinned, according to the bible. If you are a sinner (please understand every Christian even the most devote and sincere is also a sinner) then your sin separates you from God, because he is holy, and requires God's just and perfect judgment against you for your sin. However, God, in His love, did not leave us in this condition, but sent his son to suffer the consequences for sin in our place. If we will but accept his offer of grace we avoid the consequences of our sin.

Someone also asserted that Baptism is necessary for salvation. I am quite familar with the verses cited. I would hope that the writer would also be familar that most Christian denominations interpret the whole of the NT to hold that baptism is an act of obedience and symbolism in response to salvation and not necessary for salvation. See for example John 3:16, Gal. 3:1-5

Regards,

Finch

GunnerJ

HAHAHA! *snort* This just goes to show how very little you know about the "standards of proof and logic."

Negative claims do not require proof; they are logically assumed true until the opposing positive claim is proven. If you wish to disprove the claim that Adam and Eve never existed, it is your burden to prove that they do. Until then, I will rightly assume they do not.

Think I'm wrong? Then I guess it's just a matter of belief that you think Santa Claus doesn't exist...

Edited to add: By the way, Mr. Finch, we are still waiting for your replies on the "Why I believe in the Xian god" thread...

[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Rimstalker ]</p>

diana

Originally posted by Fastfalcon:
You are a sinner if you do any of the following things:
1. you lied anytime (a little white lie is still a lie)
2. you stole anytime
3. you disobeyed your parents
4. you worshipped statues and idols (this has got Ancient Israel into A LOT of trouble)
5. you trust money more than Jesus (you broke commandment #2: you shall not have any gods other than the LORD)

So if I slept with the husband of my neighbor, I'm safe? Thank the lord. I'm still perfect.

Oh, and I seethed a kid in its mother's milk last night, but it wasn't very tasty after all--too much garlic, I think--so I gave it to a less privileged family. I'm hoping my generosity balances out my violation of the 10th commandment. (But let's face it...it wasn't a really important commandment.)

And why have you pruned down the decalogue to five? Is this the Cliff Notes version?

What am I saying? Weren't the 10C given to the Jews? Why are you giving it to us with a Xnty label?

Romans 3:23: For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

One of my favorite verses. "All" have sinned and fallen short, it says. That would include infants too, huh? How about unborn babies? Are they people? Then they've also sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, right? So you don't actually have to do anything to sin, after all. You're just born into it. Right?

So your brief list there is meaningless, really. We already "sin" whether we actually do any of those things or not.

Romans 6:23: for the wages (punishment) of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Another of my favorite verses. We really do have so much in common, you and I.

I was just thinking about this verse a couple of days ago. "The wages of sin is death." OK. Has anyone ever lived who, according to your bible, didn't sin? Oh that's right...Jesus was sinless. And what happened to him? Mm-hm. I see. So might it be more accurate to just say "The wages of life is death," then?

d

Anunnaki

I don`t believe Genesis has any basis in reality,but I have to commend you on being consistent. I don`t understand how ANY Christian can buy into this salvation business UNLESS they believe in the creation myths in Genesis.

These myths have been "borrowed" from earlier Mesopotamian religions that were recorded for posterity about 6000 years when cunieform writing was invented in Sumer.
I follow the creation debates here and what I find most ridiculous and frustrating is how you guys just can`t seem to understand that it`s not the Earth thats only 6000 years old,but written language and the beginning of recorded history.

Your Christian reality exists only in your mind,but I still commend you for at least sticking to the ENTIRE Christian story which is more than I can say for most Christians I encounter.

[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Anunnaki ]

[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Anunnaki ]</p>

beachbum

Beachbum here. Did you think you could actually pst this bullshit and get away with it?

this is what I posted

'Maybe because you have at least half a brain and know how to think for yourself'

Now, what part of that shows that I do not know what I am talking about?

Fastfalcon

Diana,
I just posted the more common sins, though I should have said adultery and homosexual acts. And yes, even the infants. Think of sin as a gene. Since Adam and Eve sinned by disobeying God, they have passed down a 'sin gene' through all the lines of humanity. Jesus was the only one who did not sin because His Father is God. back to infants: HOWEVER, unborn babies, infants and young children do not yet have the capability to know right from wrong so God does not hold them accountable. Here is the full Ten Commandments:

1. I am the Lord thy God, ... Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image (idols, statues etc.)
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house.
Quit spitting your curses at me Beachbum. Any person with half a brain WOULD listen to people talking about Christ and would seek and find him and become saved.

[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Fastfalcon ]</p>

Anunnaki

Incorrect. What you should have said was "Here are ten of the many commandments ancient tribal leaders created to get others to do what they wanted and behave."

[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Anunnaki ]</p>

scombrid

Think of sin as a gene. Since Adam and Eve sinned by disobeying God, they have passed down a 'sin gene' through all the lines of humanity.

This is nice and moronic. I know it's the latest fundy fad though to believe that we're all tainted by A&E's sins. That way nobody can be redemed without Microsoft's own patch for the programming error that it created. That's always clever. Create a faulty product in a market in which you have a monopoly. Then sell a fix to the problem. Then everybody has to buy the patch.

You know you can't aquire genes by your actions. If you cut off a mouse's tail before it reproduces, it's offspring still have tails. Then again, maybe A&E are the reason I like apples so much. They created the apple liking gene by disobeying god.

Godless Dave

FastFalcon, fornication and homosexuality are not in the ten commandments. They are proscribed in Leviticus, which also says it's a sin to eat pork or shellfish. Both male homosexuality and eating shellfish are described as abominations. So eating shrimp is a sin, correct?

Talulah

*Thinking*

Nope, I still don't buy it.

Prove Jesus didn't sin and prove his father was God. While you are at it you can prove that Jesus existed and that God exists.

Point being your assertions from your holy book don't mean anything to us.

Says you. Other religions teach differently. Why should we believe you over them?

*Annoying sounding buzzer*

Wrong again. If I had half a brain I would most assuredly know about it because I would have had to train the remaining half to function like both halfs.

Since I would think that retraining your remaining half of a brain would be rather time comsuming, I don't think you would have a lot of time to be thinking about Jesus.

[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Talulah ]</p>