Freethought & Rationalism Archive

09-12-2002, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pomp:


Very eloquent, Amos.

Maybe soul is a swear word around here Pomp but we are not our tabula rasa. We have a conscious mind (tabula rasa) just as we have a body, but we are neither our conscious mind nor are we our body and that is precisely why you and I (we humans) are special to make exploration possible and possibly to last a life time.

Ted Hoffman · 09-12-2002, 11:55 PM

Xixax

Quote:

Also, it has been asked, can you have sex with your wife if she were somehow in an accident where her ability to reason for herself was damaged? My -generalized- answer would be no. She cannot provide consent, and sex without consent is wrong regardless of the relationship with the other party.

Well, well, well, what do you know!

That a man whose wife is voluptuous and physically healthy should be consigned to celibacy until she can be proved medically competent to give consent!

So what happens whe such a man still desires his wife sexually? Should he then go for therapy? cleansing?

Get a mistress? Divorce her and remarry?

Be celibate?

The AntiChris · 09-13-2002, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Intensity:

So what happens whe such a man still desires his wife sexually? Should he then go for therapy? cleansing?

I find this response particularly telling. The mere fact that you could consider a brain-damaged woman to be a legitimate, and desirable, sexual partner is worrying.

I've come to the conclusion that you really do have an exploititive attitude to sexuality and, because I have empathy for those who do not wish to be exploited, I think your attitude is one that should be discouraged.

Chris

echidna · 09-13-2002, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Intensity:
Well, well, well, what do you know!

That a man whose wife is voluptuous and physically healthy should be consigned to celibacy until she can be proved medically competent to give consent!

So what happens whe such a man still desires his wife sexually? Should he then go for therapy? cleansing?

Get a mistress? Divorce her and remarry?

Be celibate?

First paedophilia, now rape. Odd how the two go hand in hand, don't you think ?

I guess a Bonobo wouldn't have any problem with it either. Maybe that's why we put them in cages ...

Ted Hoffman · 09-13-2002, 01:55 AM

AntiChris
I find this response particularly telling. The mere fact that you could consider a brain-damaged woman to be a legitimate, and desirable, sexual partner is worrying.

I've come to the conclusion that you really do have an exploititive attitude to sexuality and, because I have empathy for those who do not wish to be exploited, I think your attitude is one that should be discouraged.

What an irrelevant conclusion.

This discussion is not about me. So anything you have said about me is irrelevant. I asked a question and if you find it adequate to use that to characterise me, or my sexual attitude, that does not reflect very well on how you judge people.

We haven't even specified the extent of brain damage. What about those married to schizophrenic people, and those whose spouses are bipolar? Those are conditions that affect people as much as brain damage resulting from an accident can.
You are sure this won't be interpreted as "discrimination" by mental health sufferers?

Does your "hands-off-until-a-consent-form-is-signed" ethics apply too in such cases?

echidna · 09-13-2002, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Intensity:
What an irrelevant conclusion.

This discussion is not about me. So anything you have said about me is irrelevant. I asked a question and if you find it adequate to use that to characterise me, or my sexual attitude, that does not reflect very well on how you judge people.

We haven't even specified the extent of brain damage. What about those married to schizophrenic people, and those whose spouses are bipolar? Those are conditions that affect people as much as brain damage resulting from an accident can.
You are sure this won't be interpreted as "discrimination" by mental health sufferers?

Does your "hands-off-until-a-consent-form-is-signed" ethics apply too in such cases?

Keep on digging, Intensity.

Ted Hoffman · 09-13-2002, 02:06 AM

Maybe we should write to all those people who are married to cripples too and ask them what the hell is wrong with them.

Since all we see in sex is rabid, mind-sick exploitation.

Does someone need to be mentally healthy to enjoy sex?

I am learning a lot because I have known people married to schizophrenics and bipolar people. I had no idea that having sex with such people is exploitation.

From this, I will have to ensure I dont marry someone with any history (personal or ancestral) of mental illness.

I wouldn't want to be accused of sexually exploiting someone. Since we should only love such people but not have sex with them.

echidna · 09-13-2002, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Intensity:
Maybe we should write to all those people who are married to cripples too and ask them what the hell is wrong with them.

Since all we see in sex is rabid, mind-sick exploitation.

Does someone need to be mentally healthy to enjoy sex?

I am learning a lot because I have known people married to schizophrenics and bipolar people. I had no idea that having sex with such people is exploitation.

From this, I will have to ensure I dont marry someone with any history (personal or ancestral) of mental illness.

I wouldn't want to be accused of sexually exploiting someone. Since we should only love such people but not have sex with them.

Please continue, we are deeply interested.

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: echidna ]

Amen-Moses · 09-13-2002, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:
As a side note, it always puzzled me why people would study monkeys to learn about humans.

Well for a start they are not monkeys but I'm sure you already knew that and secondly they along with the chimps are our nearest relatives. When you actually study their social habits you start to realise where our habits came from, yes we have buried those habits under piles of philosophical bullshit but the habits remain the same.

Amen-Moses

Ted Hoffman · 09-13-2002, 03:21 AM

echidna

Please continue, we are deeply interested.

Your interest is morbid and misdirected. I asked questions.

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09-13-2002, 01:55 AM	#195
Ted Hoffman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: "" Posts: 3,863	AntiChris I find this response particularly telling. The mere fact that you could consider a brain-damaged woman to be a legitimate, and desirable, sexual partner is worrying. I've come to the conclusion that you really do have an exploititive attitude to sexuality and, because I have empathy for those who do not wish to be exploited, I think your attitude is one that should be discouraged. What an irrelevant conclusion. This discussion is not about me. So anything you have said about me is irrelevant. I asked a question and if you find it adequate to use that to characterise me, or my sexual attitude, that does not reflect very well on how you judge people. We haven't even specified the extent of brain damage. What about those married to schizophrenic people, and those whose spouses are bipolar? Those are conditions that affect people as much as brain damage resulting from an accident can. You are sure this won't be interpreted as "discrimination" by mental health sufferers? Does your "hands-off-until-a-consent-form-is-signed" ethics apply too in such cases?

09-13-2002, 02:06 AM	#197
Ted Hoffman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: "" Posts: 3,863	Maybe we should write to all those people who are married to cripples too and ask them what the hell is wrong with them. Since all we see in sex is rabid, mind-sick exploitation. Does someone need to be mentally healthy to enjoy sex? I am learning a lot because I have known people married to schizophrenics and bipolar people. I had no idea that having sex with such people is exploitation. From this, I will have to ensure I dont marry someone with any history (personal or ancestral) of mental illness. I wouldn't want to be accused of sexually exploiting someone. Since we should only love such people but not have sex with them.

09-13-2002, 03:21 AM	#200
Ted Hoffman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: "" Posts: 3,863	echidna Please continue, we are deeply interested. Your interest is morbid and misdirected. I asked questions.

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