John Hancock

CAPITALISTIC PROGRESS Let's disgust this in lieu of PNAC'S desire to render USA free of the UN influence that might impede International Business.

Martin Buber

echidna

Right on !!! They should really be building a huge nuclear reactor. Oh no, wait, that's no good. Better yet, a massive coal burning power station for their electricity. Uh oh, that's no good either.

Martin, what you have here is not a capitalist vs communist problem. It's the paradox of how we best generate electricity for people so they can begin to live lives of equivalent affluence to our own. And to date there are no serious alternatives to generating the massive amounts of electricity which cities require. Alternative energies at best can only account for 10 - 15 % of supply, unless one is willing to undertake massive increases in energy costs, something most people are opposed to.

Buying electricity from neighboring countries ? Likely there are national concerns over international dependence & autonomy, I don't know. It might be an easy suggestion for an environmental lobbyist, but less easy for a decision-maker who must consider national autonomy. Consider also infrastucture & transmission losses.

Bagasse ? I'm yet to see any serious proposals for renewable fuels being able to generate the electricity required.

Serious about saving those 150 macaws ? How willing are you to switch off the computer, the telly, the fridge, the lights & start bicycling to work ?

John Hancock

echidna

More it's a question of we'll profit by building now that's bottom line for our company is more important than the product we produce.

Quotes from the article:

While most people agree that the country's electricity needs must be met, those opposed to the new dam say it will operate for just 50 years. They want the government to support the use of alternative, sustainable energy, such as the use of bagasse, a byproduct of the sugar manufacturing process which was once a
major industry in Belize, or to buy in power from neighbouring countries, which could cost less over the long term.

AND

But when the scientists concluded that much more work was needed in the region before the dam could proceed, their recommendations were buried in an annexe of the final 1,500-page report.
Colonel Alastair Rogers, a former Royal Marine and co-author of the assessment, now says the dam could be a disaster for the area. "Fortis claims that the bedrock of the area is granite. We believe that the presence of a large amount of porous rock such as limestone could render the dam useless. The forest would
be flooded, but the water would drain away. You'd be left with all the negatives and none of the positives."

Martin Buber

PS I'm a "pinko" not a "red"

echidna

Martin, before you are so quick to criticise western capitalistic corporations, are you familiar with China's unprecedented Three Gorges Dam Project ?

http://members.aol.com/cmwwrc/marmamnews/97121202.html

Or Romania's legacy of its coal-fired power stations ?
Or Yugoslavia's pollution of the Danube ?
Or Chernobyl ?

echidna

Martin, I responded to both bagasse & purchasing from neighboring countries in my reply. I could fully understand if they were not considered as viable alternatives.

Really it comes down to a single, sad fact, that people want cheap energy (and cheap gasoline for that matter). Break through that one & the environment stands a chance.

Domestically in Australia they've introduced GreenPower where for a premium price, the domestic purchaser can be independently assured that their power is coming from renewable sources (although there is some debate over how renewable some of those various sources are to date), and definitely including hydro for that matter !!! But I see this as one of the better alteratives so far.

John Hancock

What the Fuck does this have to do with anything?

echidna

You never did not address ethier the projects highly speculative nature Like it's likely to fail- We believe that the presence of a large amount of porous rock such as limestone could render the dam useless.

Of course your not at all concerned that this damn is at best a temporary contrivance. those opposed to the new dam say it will operate for just 50 years

Martin Buber

echidna

Martin, potential failure of the dam is all the more reason for private investment. In my experience people are far more likely to try & succeed, or not try at all when it's their own money at stake. Any capital project has risks, but to let environmental opponents decide those technical risks as too great, is simply irrational.

As for the list of other environmental disasters, well your OP seemed to be an attack on western private corporations as distinct from eastern communist governments, which seem prone to even greater mismanagement.

True, power generation projects often have only finite lives, and Victoria's Snowy River hydro scheme no longer provides the significant proportions of electricity it originally did. Nonetheless, for the next 50 years, the electricity needs to come from somewhere & trying to implement a electricity plan for more than 50 years into the future seems largely futile.

echidna

Jeez, I'm yet to see a power generation scheme without critics. Economics aside, tidal power is often opposed from the environmental impact it has on coastline environments. The Orkney Islands oppose wind power because of the blade noise and the visual eyesore it leaves. And with the localisation of many species, there's almost certain to be some rare species localised to a particular area of land. If environmental critics held veto over capital projects we never would have left our caves.

Personally I love the outdoors (probably more than most I think) & try to teach my youngsters the importance of environmental care, but realistically electricity is also needed since people are just so attached to their damn microwaves. It saddens me to watch the environmental impact of these projects, but at the end of the day, no power generation project comes without environmental cost, and the pie-in-the-sky alternatives posed by the Green Left simply aren't as feasible as they make out. I'm reluctant to impose the broad austerity measures whuch are necessary to minimalise our environmental impact, on others.

John Hancock

echidna

In this case globbleization occurs the "Fortis � backed by the Belizean government, which has made millions of pounds from privatising its electricity industry" (Palast's Briberzation) multi-nationals pay off goverment officials and are subsidized in their building and move profits out of the country via WTO freedom of currence movement. The residents are stuck with the failure of the project.

Your likely one who still demands "proof" of Global Warming.

Martin Buber