99Percent

I think suspension of driver's license is much more effective than tickets.

And it can be progressive. First offense - suspension for one day, second offense - 3 days, third offense 1 week, etc.

Another posibility is to lock the car wheels the moment there is a traffic violation, for the same amount of days.

Not being able to drive and be forced to take public transportation can be a real punishment in a car driven society.

Loren Pechtel

The problem is people drive on a suspended license.

The problem with locking the wheels is what happens if it's a borrowed car?

Joel

That's all well and good if there is such a thing as public transportation where you live. Trust me, the bus does not come by my house considering I live on a gravel road thirteen miles from the nearest town. If my license gets pulled I lose my job since I have no way to get there. At that point I also lose my home since I can't pay the mortgage without an income.

Of course, I don't drive like a moron so it's not an issue. But if a license suspension was handed out for any minor offense then I'd be screwed.

JC

callmejay

Grr.. this has been a pet peeve of mine since I got pulled over (for the first time in that state) for going 82 in a 55. Speeding, sure. But in that state it's officially "reckless driving," even though it was a clear morning with perfect visibility on a straightaway on a road with huge lanes at a time of morning when there was little to no other traffic. Speed of traffic at that hour is generally about 70-80, no joke. (I used to drive it every day.) I submit that while I was obviously driving faster than the legal limit, it was only slightly, if at all, over the actual safe speed for those conditions. The judge tried to suspend my license for 30 days, but couldn't since mine was from a different state. I ended up wasting a morning in court (mandatory) and paying 200 dollars.

As for the conflict of interest issues, there is no way in hell a police force should be allowed to keep or otherwise benefit from fines or seized goods. They should go to some other unrelated governmental use if anywhere.

Loren Pechtel

I've seen that sort of road before. Limit 65, I had to do nearly 80 to reasonably stay with traffic. I wasn't comfortable with the speed given the situation but I figured going slower was a greater danger.

Calzaer

I apologize. I had a specific road in mind when I came up with that. Nobody else here has ever been within 50 miles of it, and I didn't bother to describe.

I had a big giant essay-rant describing this situation, but it's all pretty pointless and easily summed up with "I can't see jack to the right even if I scooted all the way out to the middle of the road". It's just past the top of a hill. If someone's doing the speed limit just out of my vision, the turn is no problem. If someone's doing 75, I'm a dead man. Unfortunately, it's a nice straight smooth 4-lane road, and people feel that it's "safe" to do 75 through there even though the limit is an absurdly slow (to them) 40. If cops didn't regularly give out tickets on that stretch, I'd've probably been dead a long time ago.

I go about 6 miles out of my to avoid turning there in the daytime (I can see the headlights around the curve at night), but sometimes I can't use any other intersection without a more significant distance investment. It's nerve wracking. It's almost as bad as that spot I used to drive through in Honolulu where you had to turn right and merge across three lanes of 60mph traffic in the space of about 150 feet.

On a related but off-topic note, civil engineers should be forced by law to drive every day on the roads they design.

Ronin

...and I gave you my direct personal experience as a police officer that I have not generated tickets for revenue.

Also, I was commenting on your vast generalization, Loren...which is an incorrect view.

If you think you were ever issued a citation in error, fight it in court....seems to me your experience with road school just emphasized your ignorance of the rules of the road as well.

There are several traffic laws that I feel are unnecessary and some that I feel need more enforcing (people in the back of trucks, for instance, is perfectly legal aka "safe"?!).

Perhaps, I am reading too much into your aversion to some traffic laws that chaffe you...I just wanted to make my perspective clear.

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by Ronin
...and I gave you my direct personal experience as a police officer that I have not generated tickets for revenue.

Ok, you are an honest cop. Everything I have read says your in the minority.

If you think you were ever issued a citation in error, fight it in court....seems to me your experience with road school just emphasized your ignorance of the rules of the road as well.

I had acted consistent with what I believed the law to say. The cop said otherwise. I figured she knew better. I took traffic school in lieu of points--and learned that I was right. At that point it was too late to fight it. I've talked to others who have been nailed the same way.

There are several traffic laws that I feel are unnecessary and some that I feel need more enforcing (people in the back of trucks, for instance, is perfectly legal aka "safe"?!).

Yeah, there's an actual risk worth ticketing.

Perhaps, I am reading too much into your aversion to some traffic laws that chaffe you...I just wanted to make my perspective clear.

I'm just tired of seeing traffic laws that are obviously for revenue, not safety.

There used to often be a big speed trap on the highway heading north. The highway intersects the indian reservation up there, you would often see more cops involved than I would have thought would be in the area and an airplane overhead clocking people. Everyone who wasn't warned by something was stopped.

Of course they picked a downhill stretch to clock people on, add a few extra MPH. When the state could raise the limit to 75 it did so--and I haven't seen the speed trap since. Did the road suddenly become safer? No. It's just the unreasonable limit was changed.

Also, every time I see a speed trap it's on a piece of road with a limit whose reasons for it's limit are not obvious and sometimes nonsense. (Example: Most all main streets are 45mph. One mile of one such street is 35mph, it looks no different. There's *ONE* house in that stretch. I do not believe the house is occupied. Furthermore, there is a grade problem, much of the street has a concrete retaining wall running down the middle--no kid of an age to wander into traffic could get over it. Yet it's still 35mph on the other side of the road.

The state legislature was at one point considering making speeding on the interstate highways into wasting natural resources, $100/no points. A big concern was making it revenue-neutral. (ie, replacing the money they wouldn't be making off speeding tickets.) It got scrapped because they figured it would impair federal highway funds.

Ronin

Read better stuff...or better yet, ask your local police chief if it is possible for you to participate in a ride along program for a day or two...or join the reserves.

For what it's worth, I felt the same way once...that's one of the reasons I badged up.

Sorry, Loren, you are an intelligent citizen and the last person I would find that would assume someone else knew something better...know the law.

You are only nailed if you do not proactively defend yourself in the available court...the system is in place for just such complaints.

There are others we would possible disagree on...tag lights, recently expired tags, improper or disabled equipment.

My city has a little thing called a 'Courtesy Citation' for just such non-aggravating transgressions...they are similar to verbal warnings or work order warnings and have no fines or record associated with them...they are used often, despite your reading material.

Then see them when they are obviously used for safety...and speak to your city council if you personally perceive abuses.

By your anecdote, I see where the people of that locality perceived a threat to safety initially, re-assessed the situation and made the viable change.

The police were just enforcing the will of the people.

Should your theory of generating revenue hold true...then they would still be there.

Call your Dept of Transportation. Inquire as to whatever perceived inconsistency you observe at certain locations. Take into consideration the other complaints by citizens that may have effected these speed decisions.

I like a well constructed and consistently upgraded roadway system...since they took my horses away.

Ultimate Atheist

They do something around here that really pisses me off. They have a Click It or Ticket campaign that they do from time to time. They say this is to save lives by making people buckle up. Well that would make sense if they just glanced in the car to check your seat belts and then let you go. But what they do is let all the fancy newer cars go and then pull over and retain the older crappier cars. They do this because they know that those people are less likely to have auto insurance. Lots of times they'll actually set up road blocks right outside some of the poorest neighborhoods in order to rack up the fines. But I guess that's the American way, stick it to the lower class. And people wonder why this country has a problem with crime. Its the only way for some people to make a living after society is finished screwing them.