August Spies

Its not different. However, you typically don't brag about how you do stupid vacant things to get women, or hold it up as some sort of ideal.

Personally I think calling this type of behavior a man's "feminine" side is incredibly insulting to women. But maybe i'm just too much of a feminist.

EDIT: I am really surprised no one else finds this disturbing, did anyone read the article?

and my favorite a guy who says he is creating "my own persona" who describes himself as "horrendously addicted to Diesel jeans" and living amid a chemistry lab's worth of Kiehl's lotions.

jess

um, I'm not threatened. I just... don't get it.

This is a bubble gum thread. This was fun. The article was fun.

I have no clue what people's problems are.

I mean, AS, your first comment was hardly even a comment. It was just an insult.

In your opinion. I have a friend who believes that any one who spends as much time on the computer as I do (outside of work) is an idiot who is missing out on life. It is a chosen hobby. You may not like it, and you may choose to not associate with people who do it, based on a stereotype you picked up somewhere--- possibly off sit-coms?--- but you really can't expect people to take your opinion seriously when you are so insulting towards people for a hobby that is legal and helps the economy and no one is forcing you into.

Your 'well, I can forgive women for it' is not as noble as you seem to think. It is quite insulting towards women--- 'well, women are just not capable of doing something they want. They are victims of society. They just don't hvae the strength. Can't be because they LIKE it...'

Plastic surgery for men is not due to ( or solely to) metrosexuals. The biggest male image problem is the exact opposite--- 'real men' who think they are too small. Gyms are having this problem right now... it is bad. In addition, that stat is a lie--- ok, PS on men has increased 3 fold--- what has happened to women? a similar increase? Is this more due to money and conveniece, or men becoming more image consious?

The article was silly and fun. Reading into it the way that has been here is sorta silly. He's not 'horrendsly addicted to jeans' any more than I am to jeans. It is a hobby. We all have them. I embroider. I spend money on tools and materials. I spend more than my friends think I should. Then again, they bar hop--- spending $20 on beer and covers each place. That's a stupid, vapid hobby, IMO, to spend $60 min a weekend night to only piss it away. I'm friends with people who do this because I like them. I don't respect the hobby, and I don't join them, but that doesn't make them bad people. I don't see the difference between a person who spends $60 on hair care products a week, $60 on beer, $60 on books or $60 on stitching supplies--- it is TASTE, not vapidness. Yes, there are people in each hobby who are vapid--- but to lump them all in together and pronounce it like fact...

well, I for one can't respect that.

Cosmic: sure. You may want to include that my husband has also made half the furniture in our house, and not from kits. He's made our bed, the kitchen island, the hutch, the corner cabinent, the guest room dresser/fishtank stand and my desk. I own the Hog of desks. it is 8' by 2 1/2' .... <drool> He also can knit. Doesn't like to, but he can. Taught himself at 12, because he was bored.

Silent Acorns: specialty shoes are exempt from the no-white rule, or nurses and athletes would be screwed. It's a seasonal thing, not a date thing. About them being 'pure white', it is a your call thing--- black shoes with white accents are ok in winter, pink and yellow shoes with white accents and little straps are not. People who live year round in summer ought to be exempt, but generally stick to the rules to distinguish each other from the tourists. And there is such a thing as 'winter white', which is exempt. Does that help?

August Spies

"In your opinion. "

No, in platonic forms.... yes of course in my opinion. So?

"but you really can't expect people to take your opinion seriously when you are so insulting towards people for a hobby that is legal and helps the economy and no one is forcing you into."

Well my opinions are based on my political and philosophical stances. I am really saying nothing horribly new here, and the things I am saying have been said by many very respected people. I fail to see why you would "not take it seriously." Feel free to disagree but I am quite serious. Just because something is legal doesn't make it laudable, and it is not as if I am calling for legal action against these people, or any sort of punishment. I just think it shouldn't be praised.

of course, I have a hard time taking you seriously as well when you post a long cliche rant against somthing no one was talking about.

"He's not 'horrendsly addicted to jeans' any more than I am to jeans. It is a hobby."

I think you are being too liberal here with the term "hobby." Being addicted to X band jeans is not a hobby anymore than drinking Coke is a hobby.

Embroidering is a hobby, buying products is not, with the exception of collecting.

"I don't see the difference between a person who spends $60 on hair care products a week, $60 on beer, $60 on books or $60 on stitching supplies--- it is TASTE, not vapidness. "

Well I guess we just have different outlooks on life. If I had two people both with 120 dollars in disposable income and Person A spends 60 on beer and 60 on hair care products while perons B spends 60 on music equipment for his band and 60 on books to read... and lets assume this is the trend in their lives... I would say there is a huge difference between these people. Fundamental differences even.

To me it seems like you are wresting this whole argument on the word hobby. Buying fashion products is not a hobby in the same sense as a truly productive or artistic hobby like woodworking, writing, painting or sewing is. Is it a hobby? maybe... but myself and everyone I know would probably burst out laughing if we asked someone their hobbies and they answered "oh you know, buying Disel jeans, staying on top of new hair care products."

Presonally I see all of this as a good example of the problems of modern corporate capitalism. Corporations manufacturing desires and trends, modern consumers scrambling to keep up, people spending their time on vacant spectator hobbies instead of active productive hobbies. sigh....

-----but let me just point out that I have friends with these traits as well. I am not pretending that these things make you totally unworthy as a person, people have many qualities both good and bad. I just dont' see why anyone would praise this kind of thing.

jess

well, I think you have too narrow of a definition of the word hobby. And I hardly think you'd think $60 spent on Brittny Spears and romance novels would be more... productive... again, taste.

of course, Taste can be a fundamental difference.

buying clothes and wearing them in outfits and taking care of oneself physically is most certainly a hobby. 'productive hobbies' is a qualifier you are putting on the word--- I can't see how a bad painter is more productive than a good dresser. And most gamers are not productive. But computer, mini and RPG gamers would call it a hoppy--- albeit an expensive and addictive and nonproductive one. And certainly reanactors...

and no, you weren't saying anything 'new'. That was the point of the article. We were trying to lightly talk about something NEW and were merely hit with the same ol same old. sorry if we're bored.

no one was praising the money spent. People were merely praising the fact that het men are doing what they want. It takes a lot more balls for a man to wear nailpolish to work than it does for a woman to go makeupless and hairdoless, or a man to look like most men do. I for one can praise that.

To do it, knowing that most people will react like you do? That takes balls.

but since neither one of us takes the other seriously, perhaps it's time to end this.

Calzaer

AS: Blow me. I spend my money on what I want. You can gripe at me for looking better than you from now until next century.

I'm sorry you feel that I should flush my cash down the toilet on beer and "Deer Hunter CMLXIV", or else I'm not a "real man". You definition of "real man" is disgusting, abrasive, ignorant, drunk, belching, crotch-scratching, wife-beating, trophy-hunting, redneck, hick, trailor trash. (Look! I can paint with an absurdly broad brush too! This is fun!) I'm not going to apologize for refusing to leave the house without making sure I don't hurt everyone else's eyes with an exposed beer gut, a plumber's crack, and home-done tattoos. I'm sorry you feel that I should be a walking Triple-Bypass canditate (or else a steriod-addicted freak) in order to be a "real man". I'm sorry you feel that looking good is a cardinal male sin. I'm not sorry for doing it. I get positive attention, compliments, requests for fashion advice, and confidence. I don't need to have a moose head on my wall and a six pack on my lap while watching NASCAR to feel good. So blow me.

dangin

Cool out everyone. Or I'm hosing you all down with aloe conditioner.

August Spies

Jess:

Yes, I think spending money on romance novels would be more worthwhile than 60 bucks on a new hip eyeliner.

well... a painter literaly produced something, a dresser does not.

You are right on the second count though. But that is just semantics. My objection stands, if it is easier we can divide hobbies into two types though...

Interesting, we both feel the same way. I tried to bring up something new relative to this board, and instead I got the same odl ill-thought out responses.

I was a punk kid, I know all about this. Shock value is very overated in my book. And frankly, the entire point of the article is that it is NOT shocking to do this anymore. Gay men have paved the way and suffered the damages, now "metrosexuals" can come in and clean up. (this is what the article implied at least.)

August Spies

Calzaer, I may disagree with people like Jess but at least she puts actual thought into her responses. At least I can respect her opinions. But, quite frankly your post is undeserving of a response. However, I will take this opportunity to give you some advice:

If you want people to give you a second thought, anyone not just me, you are going to actually have to READ THE POSTS YOU ARE RESPONDING TO. Nothing you said in your post has ANY RELEVANCE to ANYTHING I HAVE SAID. It is painfully clear that you either
a. did not even bother reading my posts or
b. have a mental condition that causes you to imagine things your opponent says.

Nowhere did I claim it was "unmanly" to do these things. Nowhere did I claim it was "manly" to play deer hunter or watch NASCAR. Nowhere did I even talk about what is masculine for femine. You eintire post was one long STRAW MAN ARGUMENT, THE LOWEST FORM OF ARGUMENT POSSIBLE, the absolute lowest.

So my advice is actually respond to the persons argument. Do not argue against straw men, you are not fooling anyone. And it certainly does not get us anywhere.

I dunno, you are doing a pretty good job yourself, I wouldn't want to step in.

dangin

grooming and adornment are part of most sexual species to one extent or another. In that sense, what "metrosexuals" do is competition with the "regular" male look. In that sense it is much more than a "hobby", it is a mechanism of mating and procreation. In fact some males "hobbies" drive women away far more than being uber groomed would do.

Calzaer

AS: You post personal attacks, you get personal attacks back.

For instance:
Compared with:
Trashy romance novels aren't "wasting space", but looking good is? And you wonder why I'm angry?

Yeah, lots of vacant, vain, boring people read Newsweek, watch BBC America, and argue on political messageboards. Where's HelenM to bitch at you for judging someone based on what group they belong to when she's actually needed?

If you can say I'm vacant, boring, and uninteresting, I can say that you're a belching, crotch-scratching neanderthal.



Again, you wonder why I'm angry? If you're going to distribute personal attacks like candy, you should expect to get it back in turn.