Mageth

Y'know, xian, your tone on this thread seems a bit inconsistent with what you posted recently on another thread - "i dont seek to elevate myself comparable to others."

Slavik91

Did you expect any less of him then hypocrisy?

Paul2

10 pages later, still not moved to elsewhere.


...

Amaranth

For some real fun, check out Theism or Atheism: McHugh vs Krueger. It seems that when you finally do pin Xian to the wall and stop his artful dodging, his response is "I'm not talking to you anymore."

Watching this evasive, arrogant brat get his "intellectual" arguments skewered has been the highlight of my work-week. His full speed flight from Dr. Rick was classic.

xian

i asked you to come up with just 10 possible alternatives. Instead you start citing me axioms (ironically from an atheist).

let me show you an axiom myself, and we can then discuss the flaw in the reasoning you gave me:

for all that exists X,

1) X began to exist, and was caused
2) X began to exist, and effected itself
3) X has always existed infinitely in the past.

Now, this is absolute. THere are NO OTHER options for X (incidentally this would include the universe).

Now, in order for you to get around this you start calling them "categories".....fine, call them what you will, but they are absolute. (and i will go along with calling them categories)

Abiogenesis is a cateogry that falls beneath #1.

1) X began to exist, and was caused
a) willed causation (intelligence)
b) un-willed causation (spontaneous)


Underneath 1a and 1b you will find more categories. They are mutually exclusive. THere are no more PARALLEL theories.

Abiogenesis is 1b.

You have not many options do you? YOu cannot go BENEATH 1b as an alternative theory to abiogenesis. All you can do is go to 1a, or back up a level to #2 or #3.

now, if you are going to INSIST that the origins of life has an infinite amount of explanations replacing abiogenesis, I want you to explain to me not only HOW, but cite to me 5...just 5 alternates. Your axiom that you quoted was misused. I dont care what Hume says, (and he would agree with me, btw), you are making some logical errors with that "axiom". And when do atheists start asserting axioms anyway? I'll spare you and not divert into that subject.

i still await you to show me alterantes that replace abiogensis...heck even describe to me a SCENARIO that is logically possible...until you do, your entire argument about this particular point should be rescinded.

I believe you misrepresented the axiom. We can eliminate an infinite amount of causes by simply constraining it to mutually exlusive logic:

The universe was created by God
The universe was not created by God


from these, we can begin to build sub-trees upon sub-trees of lowering layers of logic and conditions which would be infinite in scope.

all i am saying is that I believe (and I cannot prove this), that you put confidence in abiogenesis as true. I understand you are not certain of it, but this confidence means you have faith in it.

you claim you only say it is the most plausible theory as a means of avoiding saying that you put confidence that it is true, but because abiogenesis itself has only a few parallel possible replacements, i hold to my view that you put confidence in the theory (hence believe)

now, i dont like people putting words in my mouth so i can understand if this upsets you, but I truly, HONESTLY believe (though I cannot prove) that you believe in abiogenesis as the means for the origin of life in the universe. I understand you may deny this, but I will probably maintain a belief that your denial (if you deny it) is simply for public, but in reality you put confidence in the theory, believing it. and this constitutes faith.

xian

i simply have better things to do than be a dopamine release pill for atheists looking for a xian to nit pick. there are plenty of atheists here who enjoy reasonable dialogue. if that is not your goal, i will FLEE you. that is exactly right.

trillian

Hey Xian,
I hear there is an opening for a new Iraqi Information Minister. Or you could try PR for the Raelians if that doesn't work out.

beth

Xian, I was actually not picking on you with my questions. I asked because I wanted to know what angle you are coming from so I can understand you better. If you were gracious enough to reply, even in PM, I would appreciate it. It would help to know that you are actually not a troll.

Brightest blessings!

xian

ha! That was a nice message. I take things with a grain of salt around here, especially a compliment. NOt often will atheists/theists compliment one another. I do, though. Just today, I gave Thomas McCalf a compliment- i think he's a very bright guy and fun to talk to.

so your comments are refreshing, thank you- (i believe you meant them too!) though I'm not sure why you wished me blessings, but o well!.

Hawkingfan

xian,

Did you ever answer this? (posted by Amaranth):


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
obviously there is no UNANIMOUS thing atheists have in common other than lack of belief in God- it is only one thing ALL of them have in common.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



and


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atheists have more in common than simply lack of belief in god
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



are contradictory.

Care to take another shot at it?