Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lcb · 07-21-2002, 10:48 AM

i have a closet christian professor who lately has obliquely been arguing that the bible prophecies that say the jewish people will be returned from the diaspora and will regain their state, language, and land and temple and that the city of jerusalem will become a "trembling block' and burdensome stone to the nations, are evidence of the accuracy of last days bible prohecies.Do y'all have any ammunition i can use to counter this guy, i thank you all in advance?

Darkside_Spirit · 07-21-2002, 11:06 AM

Israel was set up, in large part, due to the Western leaders' familiarity with the Old Testament, and the Jews seeing it as a "promised land". Ergo, the prophecies are self-fulfilling.

[ July 21, 2002: Message edited by: Darkside_Spirit ]

lcb · 07-21-2002, 11:16 AM

thanks darkside, this professor has already tried to argue against this "self fulfilling" reality by saying that the exodus was caused by the nazi holocaust and a compelling need to find a place to repatriate hundreds of thousands of concentration camp survivors (who couldnt,in good conscience be sent back to the place they were brutalized)and that it couldnt be self-fulfilling unless the nazis and hitler and all the axis and allied powers were all in on the "conspiracy", hence, according to our 'holier than thou' professor, the Bible is far mor accurate than it is not. HELP!

Kosh · 07-21-2002, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
thanks darkside, this professor has already tried to argue against this "self fulfilling" reality by saying that the exodus was caused by the nazi holocaust and a compelling need to find a place to repatriate hundreds of thousands of concentration camp survivors (who couldnt,in good conscience be sent back to the place they were brutalized)and that it couldnt be self-fulfilling unless the nazis and hitler and all the axis and allied powers were all in on the "conspiracy", hence, according to our 'holier than thou' professor, the Bible is far mor accurate than it is not. HELP!

Of course, since all the other allies (except Russia) were Xian nations, and we had one big badass bomb,they would be easy to convince...

lcb · 07-21-2002, 11:45 AM

thanks guys, this professor says the rebirth of Israel (the "fig tree") is in Matt 24:32-34, and the Hebrew language recovered in Zephaniah 3:9,the Ethiopian Jews return to Israel(this prof says he watched on CNN as jewish air force C-130 transports brought thousands of Black ethiopian jews back to Israel-is he fantasizing or what??!!)in Zephanaiah 3:10 and Exiles return to Israel in Ezekeil 37:21, and Isreal becoming ferile and blossoming in Isaiah 27:6, ,keep that ammunition coming guys! thanks, Debbie/lcb

FunkyRes · 07-21-2002, 12:19 PM

I don't know for certain, but I'm pretty sure (as a Christian) that indeed, we see the prophecy of the Valley of Dry Bones happening.

You can call it self fulfilling if you like, but the west did not set up Israel because of the prophecy- show me ONE SHRED of evidence to support that.

Regardless, they are a nation now, and they are to a large extent gathered together.

They are not yet a God Fearing nation (Olive Tree has not bloomed) as they certainly do not follow some of the biblical principles, such as how often they are told in the Bible to treat the foreigner with dignity and respect, as they were once foreigners in another land.

It's all through the Mosaic law, but the way they treat the Palestinians really needs to be changed.

At any rate- the prophecy in Ezekiel 37 first has the dry bones coming together, then flesh put on them but no breath.

The spirit of God has not come on Israel yet.
The olive tree has not blossomed.
But the time is near, it is very near.

lcb · 07-21-2002, 12:39 PM

this professor says the jews are locating jews from the priestly tribe of Levi and training them how to be temple priests again and that they have reconsrtucted the ancient temple sacrificial implements and that they have a plan to lay the cornerstone for the third temple and rebuild it and that jews are now returning from argentina the US and Europe to Israel. He also says that many secular scholars are starting to study about Armageddon and end times issues. Can this prof possibly be anything but a loony tunes? could he be right?

mattmattmattmattv · 07-21-2002, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
[QB]This professor has already tried to argue against this "self fulfilling" reality by saying that the exodus was caused by the nazi holocaust and a compelling need to find a place to repatriate hundreds of thousands of concentration camp survivorsQB]

So, God directly caused the Holocaust? And for nothing other than to fulfill some stupid prophecy? Couldn't he have found a way to usher His people back into their homeland without having the majority of them gassed or burned in the process? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

ex-preacher · 07-21-2002, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
this professor says the jews are locating jews from the priestly tribe of Levi and training them how to be temple priests again and that they have reconsrtucted the ancient temple sacrificial implements and that they have a plan to lay the cornerstone for the third temple and rebuild it and that jews are now returning from argentina the US and Europe to Israel.

Certainly, there are some fundamentalist Orthodox Jews who want to rebuild the temple. The majority of Israelis are secularists or rather lax in their Judaism.

Quote:

He also says that many secular scholars are starting to study about Armageddon and end times issues. Can this prof possibly be anything but a loony tunes? could he be right?

Pure BS.

It is a fact that Zionism from the late 19th century until modern times has gotten a huge boost from conservative Christians who believe that Israel is God's chosen nation.

The OT prophecies have zero predictive value. Like the so-called prophecies of Nostradamus, they can only be "interpreted" after the fact.

Toto · 07-21-2002, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
this professor says the jews are locating jews from the priestly tribe of Levi and training them how to be temple priests again and that they have reconsrtucted the ancient temple sacrificial implements and that they have a plan to lay the cornerstone for the third temple and rebuild it and that jews are now returning from argentina the US and Europe to Israel. He also says that many secular scholars are starting to study about Armageddon and end times issues. Can this prof possibly be anything but a loony tunes? could he be right?

There is a lunatic fringe in Israel that wants to build the Third Temple and resume animal sacrifices. The only thing holding them back is that they need a perfect red calf, and that rebuilding the Temple would ignite World War III, so no one is going to let them do it.

You can find more information from the links in this thread (if they are still active):

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000157&p=" target="_blank">The Temple Mount</a>

07-21-2002, 10:48 AM	#1
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	a closet christian professor i have a closet christian professor who lately has obliquely been arguing that the bible prophecies that say the jewish people will be returned from the diaspora and will regain their state, language, and land and temple and that the city of jerusalem will become a "trembling block' and burdensome stone to the nations, are evidence of the accuracy of last days bible prohecies.Do y'all have any ammunition i can use to counter this guy, i thank you all in advance?

07-21-2002, 11:06 AM	#2
Darkside_Spirit Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 33	Israel was set up, in large part, due to the Western leaders' familiarity with the Old Testament, and the Jews seeing it as a "promised land". Ergo, the prophecies are self-fulfilling. [ July 21, 2002: Message edited by: Darkside_Spirit ]</p>

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07-21-2002, 11:16 AM	#3
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	thanks darkside, this professor has already tried to argue against this "self fulfilling" reality by saying that the exodus was caused by the nazi holocaust and a compelling need to find a place to repatriate hundreds of thousands of concentration camp survivors (who couldnt,in good conscience be sent back to the place they were brutalized)and that it couldnt be self-fulfilling unless the nazis and hitler and all the axis and allied powers were all in on the "conspiracy", hence, according to our 'holier than thou' professor, the Bible is far mor accurate than it is not. HELP!

07-21-2002, 11:45 AM	#5
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	thanks guys, this professor says the rebirth of Israel (the "fig tree") is in Matt 24:32-34, and the Hebrew language recovered in Zephaniah 3:9,the Ethiopian Jews return to Israel(this prof says he watched on CNN as jewish air force C-130 transports brought thousands of Black ethiopian jews back to Israel-is he fantasizing or what??!!)in Zephanaiah 3:10 and Exiles return to Israel in Ezekeil 37:21, and Isreal becoming ferile and blossoming in Isaiah 27:6, ,keep that ammunition coming guys! thanks, Debbie/lcb

07-21-2002, 12:19 PM	#6
FunkyRes Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Antioch, CA Posts: 173	I don't know for certain, but I'm pretty sure (as a Christian) that indeed, we see the prophecy of the Valley of Dry Bones happening. You can call it self fulfilling if you like, but the west did not set up Israel because of the prophecy- show me ONE SHRED of evidence to support that. Regardless, they are a nation now, and they are to a large extent gathered together. They are not yet a God Fearing nation (Olive Tree has not bloomed) as they certainly do not follow some of the biblical principles, such as how often they are told in the Bible to treat the foreigner with dignity and respect, as they were once foreigners in another land. It's all through the Mosaic law, but the way they treat the Palestinians really needs to be changed. At any rate- the prophecy in Ezekiel 37 first has the dry bones coming together, then flesh put on them but no breath. The spirit of God has not come on Israel yet. The olive tree has not blossomed. But the time is near, it is very near.

07-21-2002, 12:39 PM	#7
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	this professor says the jews are locating jews from the priestly tribe of Levi and training them how to be temple priests again and that they have reconsrtucted the ancient temple sacrificial implements and that they have a plan to lay the cornerstone for the third temple and rebuild it and that jews are now returning from argentina the US and Europe to Israel. He also says that many secular scholars are starting to study about Armageddon and end times issues. Can this prof possibly be anything but a loony tunes? could he be right?

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