keyser_soze

Actually we've been looking at monte schools, there's one only 2 miles away or so. I don't know that they can teach better than we do, or give as much individual care. My wife doesn't work, and I work third shift(my habit is to come in and spend time with the kids for a few hours, then spend time with the wife, do any chores, etc...then go to bed in the afternoon). So we have two degreed, loving parents to dote on the kids and instruct in our respective strength areas(my wife is artistic, I am mechanical/historical). She knew her alphabet before 3, had an immense vocabulary, and understood the basics of math(5 pennies plus 1 penny 6 pennies). She has some basic words in latin and spanish, and has a few words in russian. We try not to push her, and when she get's tired or distracted, we stop. But she is a sponge, and while not high-genius level, she certainly is bright.

southernhybrid

Regardless of how bright your little girl is, four year olds do seem to have a limited ability to apply critical thinking skills. For example, it's normal for four year olds to have imaginary friends so keep that in mind here. Perhaps you have unrealistic expectations for your daughter at this very young age.

Give her sometime to play pretend and as she develops more of a readiness to apply critical thinking skills, you will have ample opportunity to help her use those skills. I raised an atheist son by exposing him very gently to almost every religion in the world. I encouraged him to learn about what people all over the world believe and then to decide for himself. Maybe a little comparative religion education coming from you would actually be helpful to your daughter as she matures a bit.

keyser_soze

HelenM

I got my son a 'butterfly' canopy (from a Discovery Channel store) for his birthday which has turned out to be one of his most interesting presents. It's a smallish net canopy that comes with a card to send off in the mail and they send you five caterpillars in a jar with food in it. They grow like crazy then form chrysalises and you transfer the paper that the chrysalises are on to the canopy. They come out about a week later and then you put sugar water or orange slices in there and watch them for a few days, then let them go. (We're in the 'watch the butterflies' stage now)

We've concluded they have very small brains because they don't seem very adept at finding the orange slices in there.

Anyway if you come across one of those she might enjoy it. (Unless it doesn't 'count' unless you collect them yourself ).

A week and a bit ago we were at the beach and had an awesome time collecting shells. We understand the joys of collecting things...

Re your comment about your other daughter being behind - maybe she is in such things as pre-reading or verbal skills but I expect you'll find that she has her own strengths in other areas. Maybe you already have noticed those. Or it could be that her different interests have her 'behind' in development of certain skills but you'll find that as she gets older she has lots of ability - she just didn't have the motivation at this age to work on those skills in the way Maddie has had. Who knows...I have noticed that my younger child doesn't score as well at school and she is behind where my son was because she doesn't 'push ahead' in the same way - she doesn't have the intellectual curiosity he does. But on the other hand I think she is much more perceptive and attentive than he is, in general. She lives more in the 'here and now' than he does. I think she is just as 'bright' as him. She just doesn't manifest it the same way. Anyway, enjoy the differences between them...I think it's one of the amazing things about being a parent - how different siblings can be!

Helen

keyser_soze

Well, that's weird...my typing just went away.

Anyway, to retype what I had been writing...

It's not that kate is "behind" other children, she is, in fact, ahead. But Maddie is VERY far ahead of the norm. To us, it is normal, we expect such things from her, as happens when you are around someone all the time. To strangers and relatives that she rarely sees? She makes them uneasy, because she is DEFINATELY different. Once they get to know her though, she delights them. Sure, she's a bitch...but she's a high-minded one! And when she's in an effervescent mood, she lights up everyone. But, as agreed with everyone else...You kind of get a sense of strangeness about her. It's nothing that she can help though, it's just her nature.

As to kate, she's definately ahead of the charts, and her peers. But far behind maddie. That makes her no different to us though, as every person is different, and we encourage that aspect. She is not as curious, she is not as quick, she is not as vocal, and she is not as sharp at the age. Maddie, just turning 4, exhibits a manner that would not be uncommon at 14, and a vocabulary to match it. She would be ahead further in reading, I should think, but she apparently had quite normal growth rates on the age at which the cortex processes visual information. She still printed upside down or left to right transposed until a few months ago(though she could read the same words just as effectively if they were upside down or backwards at the time). That has finally settled, and now her reading skills are advancing quickly.

The Other Michael

I think that as long as you are gearing the info/critical thought exercises to the level the child is comfortable operating at, give her all she is willing to accept.

How does she deal with other mythological constructs - the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, honest politicians, and the like?

You might want to locate your local gem and mineral club and take her on a visit. Our local one in SF has a nice mineral specimen collection on display, along with lots of jewelry/craft work. She can learn more about her rocks (some of which are just rocks even to the club members) and might get interested in some of the craft side of it too. If you can't locate one PM me and I'll have my sweetheart see if the club has a directory of other clubs across the country.

cheers,
Michael

keyser_soze

The other mythical characters? I haven't even told her god doesn't exist yet. That one I wish to leave to her own mind, but I plan to put enough information in there that she can choose whether or not to believe based on as much information as is available. For the time being, I let her mother handle the mythical beings. I doubt they have a mineral club in Huntsville. I take her to sciquest, and the museum, and tons of kiddie things...

Opera Nut

My daughter went tothe only Montessori school in the country that goes from preschool all the way thru high school. School of the Woods in Houston. She went from preschool thru 7th grade, and was well prepared for her public high school which is quite good. She now has a 3.5 average on the 4 point scale, takes all the college prep stuff, and is in the BOTTOM HALF of her class.

fromtheright

keyser-soze,

I'm looking through the posts one at a time but if you don't mind an answer from the slightly fundie corner, I think you'll find the critical thinking skills will come in handy. I think lunachick is probably right, that's it's probably a social thing. Though I hope my son is learning some things at Sunday School, I still think that's the biggest reason he enjoys going, now at 13 years old. As I think I've said in other posts, I went through several years as an atheist and one thing I have kept from that is to be somewhat skeptical of some things even in the faith. Though I do believe that religious faith is a worldview of absolutes, I remain doubtful of the doctrines of hell and original sin, among others, from a standpoint of justice. That, and the salty language I picked up in the Navy, also causes some problems at my house as my wife is a died in the wool Pentecostal (yes, there are degrees of fundie-ism) so even as a Christian I can still relate to some of what you're going through.

I also agree with one of lunachick's other posts--getting your daughter involved in sports will provide other opportunities to socialize and spend time with other children. Getting into local sports (my son started AYSO and YMCA basketball at age four) will provide a varied pool of children she will enjoy spending time with. My son's closest friends are those he has made in sports.

And, yes, I would reinforce the fun time with her. One of the biggest lessons she will learn from that is that atheists aren't boogeymen (though I think that many hold some boogey ideas, but I won't digress), which some (especially where you and I live; am just curious, BTW, which church it is) churches will teach her. Her time with you will teach her rather quickly to be skeptical of such goofiness.

My apologies to all if I have sermonized. I've tried to be mindful of SL&S rules, though I'm not terribly preachy about religion anyway.

muon

I have a vague memory of a study that claimed that the "effective dose" for childhood religious indoctrination was 1000 hours, integrated over childhood. That is, a child who was exposed to 1000+ hours of church attendance, Bible camps, etc. almost always grows into an adult who buys into religion hook, line, and sinker. Smaller doses tended to have little real effect.

Does anyone else here remember seeing such a study?

So, one hour of church a week, from ages 2-18, which isn't backed up outside of Sunday, isn't likely to do serious harm on this model. But add in the Bible studies, VBCs, and all the rest, and things may add up. I would guess that the earlier the dose, the more effective it is.

Of course, my parents didn't take my brother and myself to church until we were four or five, and the priest could read that mass in less than 45 minutes on a good day. I'm glad I escaped!