Gooch's dad

Magus, think about what you're saying. You seriously believe in a God who needs a blood sacrifice in order to forgive sins? What is so special about plasma and red blood cells? Hmmm?

Step back and think about what you're saying for a sec, ok? A blood sacrifice. Can you even vaguely understand how barbaric and primitive that sounds?

Mageth

Where do we end up? As Butters said, God had HIMSELF cruxified to appease HIMSELF. Right?

I'd like to submit a modified, more complete, version (my synopsis of the redemption story):

God himself created man and woman and placed them in a garden, in "his own image", but got righteously angry at them when they ate, against his wish, and after being tempted by a talking serpent that god himself had somehow allowed to slither about in the garden, a tasty, beautiful fruit, though he himself had placed it there but neglected to instill in his creations the knowledge of good and evil so that they would know it was wrong to eat it. Being omniscient, of course, he knew all this before he started, but was apparently unable to do anything about it because he had planned it this way from the beginning, and apparently god cannot change anything he already knows, in spite of the fact that he's omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.

Later, God himself impregnated a virgin so that he himself could be born a human, a ManGod. This was necessary, apparently, because only his own ManGod blood could appease himself and deliver humans, who he created, and who he knew would muck things up by eating the fruit, from his own righteous anger.

Of course, he waited several thousand years to implement this divine plan, in the meantime taking the righteous action of drowning every creature on the planet except a few he could stuff on a boat. Not to mention handing down a Law that served to further condemn every one of us, and in which Law he himself had them frequently sacrifice animals to appease himself, though he knew the blood of animals didn't really appease himself.

Much later, god, in a garden, prayed to himself to "take this cup" away from himself, though he himself knew that he himself had planned the coming events from the beginning and knew that not even he himself could save himself, even though he was god and omnipotent, omniscient, etc. Accepting this, he said, in effect, "Not my will, but my will."

God then sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself. (or had himself sacrificed; not much of a distinction between the two, really) Before dying, he himself asked he himself why he had forsaken himself.

He himself, being dead, then raised himself from the dead less than 40 hours later, though he himself had said he'd be dead for three days and three nights, which he could do because he was still alive, and later he himself pulled himself up into heaven where he himself apparently already was, and where he himself is described as now sitting at the right hand of himself.

He himself then sent himself (or a ghost of himself, if you please) back to earth to be a comfort to us, though he himself is still sitting at the right hand of himself.

And, glory hallelujah, he himself promised that he himself will return someday, though he himself is already here, and will still be there, to snatch up those who believe the god blood sacrifice story he himself told us, and kill the rest of us who don't believe the god blood sacrifice story, no matter how nice we were otherwise. But, since killing us isn't enough to appease his righteousness, he himself will then judge us, though according to ManGod he himself will also not judge us, and being a god of love will cast most of us into hell for an eternity of suffering. He has to, of course, because he is a righteous, just god, and can't figure out a way to save anyone who hasn't been redeemed by god-blood, even though he is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, and loves us all.

Tabula_rasa

Yep, Mageth, that's the Greatest Story Ever Told

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

Butters

Mageth, That was brilliant. I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to have to pass that around to my Christian freinds!

Mageth

Pass away.

Feel free to make any changes/additions you like, as well.

Mageth

Note that I added "omniscient" at the end of the first paragraph, and made a few other minor changes.

Hedwig

Thou art truly inspired, Mageth. :notworthy

Golgo_13

Aka. "Don't think, just blindly devote yourself to it. You'll be glad you did. Trust me".

He forgot the part where he hisself would say to you "I did not know you" despite his omniscience, because you didn't believe in the story, which he knew you wouldn't before he created you in a way in which you would be exposed to certain stimuli and develop in a certain way that would cause you to reject the story and him to damn you to eternal hellfire, which he already knew, of course.

Spaz

Haha, that was great Mageth :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

But don't worry, they'll try to make sense of it, just like that carm site does, is it just me or on every explanation that magus has sent us from carm do they do nothing but say that god has to do it because god is great and can't be understood therefore explaining absolutely nothing? Whatever, one day the myth will die off...I hope.

Treacle Worshipper

Thank you for answering my question, Magus.

Originally posted by Magus55
Treacle, I guess He wouldn't have been crucified then. It was in God's plan for it to happen though, so obviously the Romans would have never chosen not to do it, and its been done so why dwell on ifs?

Tabula_rasa has alreasy covered part of my response, in pointing out that you contradict yourself as to whether the Romans had free will or not.

I chose to dwell on an if, because the common Xian response is that "it was all part of God's plan", which would eliminate the free will of the Romans. You said that they/we crucified Christ out of free will. If it truly was out of free will, then I am left with a couple of questions.
1) Did the Romans' actions just happened to fortuitously coincide with god's plan?
2) Given that the Romans, having free will, could have done something else, what might god have done if they hadn't followed his plan? How does this all reflect on god's omniscience & omnipotence?
Just wondering...

BTW, Mageth: :notworthy Great post.
TW