emotional

No, I won't get discouraged anymore. In past, when my belief in life after death rested upon [what I considered to be] evidence, I had much to fear, because my evidence was being refuted all the time (hence my leaving the boards for some time); but now that my belief in life after death is based on pure faith, it is irrefutable, so I have no fear of being discouraged.

KitKit

life has no meaning because it will eventually all end?

well that just makes no sense at all. "meaning" is something the human mind attaches to things. "meaning" is not a concrete thing that would exist with or without us. it is all in your mind. you must decide what is meaningful. if you say that your life or the life of humans would have no meaning if there was not something after death you are only speaking for yourself because you are the only one who knows what's meaningful to you.

life has plenty of meaning for me. i get pleasure from numerous things in my life (i won't go into details about all of them). i know that one day this earth won't even be here, much less the humans or other life living on it. the sun will do the same thing that all other stars do & everything will be gone when it does. but that can't possibly have any bearing on what is meaningful to me since meaning only exists in my mind. i will decide if life is worth living even though it will all be gone. and i bask in the reality of it all. and i completey agree...
knowing that it will all be gone one day makes it that much more amazing to me that we are even here at all. i will take full advantage of the short time i have on this earth. i will live every moment like there is no tomorrow, because one day there will be no tomorrow & who knows what day that is?

Walross

Yes. This is exactly what I was trying to say. Life is so much more precious for the fact that it will end.

I guess my question to emotional would be: if you can't find meaning and comfort in a finite life, then what makes you think you'll find it in an infinite one? Regards,

Walross

wade-w

My own thoughts about a possible afterlife are diametrically opposed to yours, emotional. I find the thought of an afterlife, of an eternal existence of any kind, horrifying. I much prefer the thought that oblivion is what awaits us. But my wanting it to be so in no way makes it so. If there was solid evidence of an afterlife, I would have no choice but to accept it. I really don't understand how you can convince yourself of something that you know is counter to all the evidence we have.

Death is inevitable; nothing is forever, not even the universe itself! It is one thing that we all have in common. I can't fathom being so afraid of something that is inevitable.

emotional

It all boils down to consciousness and the existence of the universe. As far as I'm concerned, the universe exists only while I'm conscious of it (yes, I know it objectively exists while I'm unconscious, but I'm talking about my own subjective, solipsist point of view). Therefore, if death is the end of consciousness, then death is the end of the universe. What meaning is there if the universe has ended? Meaning and consciousness are intertwined.

I just don't want the universe to end. I'm not afraid of dying, I'm afraid of being dead (if death is what atheism says it is).

emotional

I really can't understand you.



It's easy: you just switch reason off and let faith dominate.

I really don't have a choice in the matter. Certainly I could accept reason today and disbelieve in life after death. How long will that hold on? Until the next outbreak of a plague like SARS, or until my next flight on an aeroplane - in short, the reasoned view of no life after death can keep me alive and sane only until I feel my life is in peril. Which is: all the time.

Another reason is that I'm not pleased with my life. I don't have any friends in real life, I'm 24 and have never had a girlfriend, I'm soon to undergo studies and tests which makes me tense and suspended and afraid of failure. I feel quite dead already. So I'm looking forward to a better life after I die. I dare say if I were enjoying life I wouldn't have to think about death and the afterlife all the time.

emotional

(double post)

KitKit

well, when you put it that way...

i suppose if i were living such a "miserable" existence as you claim yours is i might be able to deny reality & slip into a fantasy world where a life-after-death existed.

then again i'm not really that type of person. i'd much rather change things & make my life more enjoyable. i've been in the dumps. i've hit rock bottom. i've been absolutely miserable & made others miserable by pulling them down with me. but i never turned to a god or thoughts of what would await me after i died. i just turned my life around instead. i took control & made a happier existence for myself.

i am truly sorry for your misery. i really am. i hate to see unhappy people more than anything in the world. maybe some day you will love yourself & value your time here on earth enough change things NOW & not waste your time here thinking about what awaits you after you are dead. doesn't it bother you in the least that you could live your entire life thinking only of your after-life & then die & have given up all the beauty that was here for....well for nothingness? what an incredible waste.

emotional

Shall I clap my hands in admiration?



If I had a penny for every time people told me to "take control of your life and improve it", I'd be very rich. The trouble is with REALITY: it's outside my control.

What beauty? What's so beautiful about life? Again I ask: have you never studied nature, how it is red in tooth and claw? Have you never been to a hospital? Life is truly a curse! It is because of my study of science and history that I decided that the afterlife must necessarily be better than this life. This life, this world, is not beautiful by any stretch of imagination. The real world of beauty is the afterlife, which is free of pain and struggle.

KitKit

This is what is so beautiful about my life (amongst many, many other things, too many to list)...



perhaps you're looking in the wrong places. there is misery & violence & sadness, but there is also beauty & happiness & love. there are two sides to every coin. i'm sorry you don't have it in you flip the coin over & look to see what's on the other side. maybe some day you will. i hope some day you will.