philechat

God objectively appears? Oh well. Ma-Zu also objectively appeared, and so is Buddha in our time, according to some believers. So are countless new Missiahs, aliens, and African goddesses.

Problem here: Why will it matter if God exists or not? Ma-Zu might also exist. Should you worship her just because she "might exist"? No again. So what's your point, WJ?

To posit an omnicient God implies the existence of an Objective Truth. If truth is truely subjective, then God is a non-sensical concept. God only has meaning if He exists "outside" of hunan consciousness, that His existence is independent of the existence of us humans.

And by the way, even if the Christian God exists, I feel obligated to reject him. He had offended my aesthetic sensibility...

Koyaanisqatsi

Who here is arguing their "case?"

We don't believe in childish fairy tales. You do. It is therefore your f*cking case and it is now closed.

Foxhole Atheist

Hey WJ:

Look around. Do you see any gods? If you do not see any, then you understand the basis for non-belief. Now, you can bring up all of the phenomena we cannot see such as gravity. However, there are other ways that I can discern those unseen phenomena. But, as hard as I try, I have never been able to discern the presence of any god(s).

All the previous presentation of rational and logical reasons for non-belief has fallen on 2 deaf ears; and they’re not mine. I, for one, do not need a considerable amount of logical argument to come to the conclusion that I have.

It appears that your skull is thicker than a nuclear containment vessel/building. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

WJ

What are you all expecting to see? As an example, Jesus was [appeared] supposed to be three persons; logically impossible? Objective reason failing you?

If it is *not* failing you, then try to defend your own default belief. Oops, sorry, default 'position'.

If God is nonsensical, tell me why you all take it so personally? Why argue it. AJ would not be very proud of you fellow atheists, would he now?

Speaking of you all's weakmnded theories about the non-existence of God, if I gave you a glass of water and said it was boiling an hour ago, how would you know it-be able to verify it? You wouldn't. Not possible. Likewise, if God appeared before man, how would you think you would know it?

You guys are more fun that a barrel of monkees!



Walrus

philechat

Hey WJ,

According to Wittgensten aesthetics is also non-sensical. But I sure love to debate aesthetics with other people.

When you choose something (atheism in this case) you will find reason to affirm it.

Hope this helps.

WJ

Koy, all!

Hey, I just caught this. you said;

"We don't believe in childish fairy tales. You do. It is therefore your f*cking case and it is now closed."


You used the word 'belief' I thought atheism was not based upon a belief? Looks like you and Reasonable are in the toilet without a tissue again! Egg on on your face? Or did you have beans for breakfast...




Walrus
--------
AJ Ayer for President

philechat

Hey WJ:

May you tell me why don't you pray to that beloved sea goddess Ma-Zu? She doesn't exist? Wait...how do you know?

Then why do you expect us to believe in Jesus' resurrection?

It's mutual, as far as non-belief goes.

No. I don't think atheism is the "more objective" position. But surely those who consider one belief system as "absolute" (instead of understanding the incompleteness of any belief system, which includes *gasp* Christianity and some forms of atheism) are hopelessly unimaginative.

Note that once God is considered omniscient then Objectivity (Absolute Truth) inevitably follows.

And the existence of such God kills subjectivity...which you tried to defend throughout your posts.

[ May 09, 2002: Message edited by: philechat ]</p>

free12thinker

Let's remember that when we argue or debate about God, we do so in the confines of this forum, or elsewhere *if the subject is brought up.

We don't throw the topic out there at every turn, just hoping someone will fight with us about it, or hoping someone will buy it hook, line or seeker. Christianity does this. Christianity claims to be the foundation of this country.

That said, we discuss it, amongst one another, thinker to thinker, because we all think. We are all in amazement at the troubles of God/Religion and the contradictions of God/Religion and worse yet, at the hook, line & sinker affect it has on the people it has. We discuss it because we see a problem with it. It hurts people. It removes freedoms. And frankly, we need to vent. We need to understand better. We need some perspective that isn't related to a deity. I wouldn't expect you to understand though, and this isn't meant to be an ignorant statement. But since God is as great and mysterious as theists claim, than discussing him in as deep a context as we do seems useless, since, well...we'll never dig deep enough to fathom him.

And really, that's not a thinking person's rationale to anything.

*There isn't a belief without proof. At least not to a thinking person.
*There isn't an absolute, only a probably, based on evidence, or lack thereof.
*For every action there is an equal or opposite reaction.

This is why we "argue", as you call it. But remember, you don't have to be part of the argument. You're in a forum that is predominantly non-theist. I wouldn't go to a Christian Coalition website and ask why they argued atheism, it would be obvious to me. They are going to argue it, because it goes against their mentality.
Ditto here.
Except of course, their mentality is faith based, and ours is logic based.

Have a nice day, a good life, and a thousand more nonsensical posts.

WJ

Free!

"May you tell me why don't you pray to that beloved sea goddess Ma-Zu? She doesn't exist? Wait...how do you know?"

Exactly my point. You don't *know* what it means for some thing and/or Being to exist. Now what? Defend your position! If you can't, which you really can't do, then read the following:


"Note that once God is considered omniscient then Objectivity (Absolute Truth) inevitably follows."

How so? Do you know what comprises Absolute Truth to your own existence? To your own belief?You don't, do you!? If you do, convince me *why* you exist. How does consciousness result from no thing? The answer to that will prove you don't know what you are talking about when you said:

"And the existence of such God kills subjectivity...which you tried to defend throughout your posts."

Explain what you consider to be as absolute truth viz. your own existence! Let us see how thorough and all-knowing you really are (about your own self)!

I await your reply.

Walrus

free12thinker

Hey WJ, you are calling me out on qoutes I didn't even make.

Do some research (like finding out who actually posted these comments) and call me in the morning.