muon

Even theists that think they've settled this question run into trouble when kids show up.

My advice, hard-assed as it may seem: either commit right now to not having kids, or break up.

If you want my reasons why I'd take such a hard line, you have only to read the Strumming for Jesus thread ...

JCS

I want to echo the sentiments of those that advise bringing these issues into the open before they are forced upon you. It is far better to fight over it now (if it comes to that) than to fight over it in front of children.


If that is true and this is true,

then compromise will be extremely difficult. Even if you can compromise now, there is no guarantee that these agreements will be stuck too in the future. The differences and attachment to them are to far apart.

I admire you for taking the position you have. Children should be allowed to develop critical thinking skills before they are exposed to socially accepted cults. Good luck.

*~Mandy~*

Hi, I am expecting my first baby in 5 weeks, and I'd like to share with you what my husband and I did to resolve our differences before we got pregnant. We were both xians at the time :eek I was a member of the Church of Christ, and my husband was raised Southern Baptist, but he was really alot more liberal than most SB. My dad preached at the CoC that we attened. When my husband and I decided to get a little more serious about starting a family, the deal was that we would each tell our children what we personally believed, and the child could then decide. I wanted them to go to "my" church, though My hubby didn't like the idea of our children being brought up in a church that teaches that it is the only one going to heaven. I agree that I didn't really like that aspect of the CoC, but it would cause so many problems w/ my family to attend somewhere else. Thus started our decision to fully search the Bible until we could come to a conclusion about how we would raise our children, and where we would attend church. We wanted to make sure that we "knew" exactly what the Bible taught, and we agreed that if we were convinced that we were wrong, then we had to change our belief.

We both got on-line every night and studied just about every xian religion out there, even the ones we knew we didn't agree with, just to see what different points of view were out there. We also used the Bible, and searched it's history, as well as Jewish history.

After about 6 months of this we both had to admit that we really didn't believe in xiantity anymore, and I stopped attending church after about a year. We still continue to study, but I think we've both come to the conclusion that religion is just a dillusion. We would both call ourselves atheists now.

I think that if you went to your husband and told him that you wanted to start a family, but you wanted to iron out your religious differences now, he might be willing to start studying with you. Of course, he thinks he will convert you Fortunately, the Bible is it's own worst enemy! If you study up, too, you should have no problem combating him. I'd start with a study of Judaism (both today and in Bible times), followed by a study of the culture of the time, including Mithraism. Keep in mind that Paul/Saul actually "started" xianity, and that Tarsus was a hotbed for Mithrasim.

Good Luck, and if you need any help with any subjects, I'm sure you will find people here to help you.

BadBadBad

Mandy, that's a very interesting experience. Unfortunately, I think if you suggested that journey of study starting as an atheist, I think your husband may have had a totally different reaction. It could happen, but confronting a fundie from an atheist point of view is an afront to everything they are. My wife, a fundie, would never want to sit down to read the Bible with me. When I got on a kick of reading the Bible, and confronting her with the shocking truth, it was the worst time of our marriage. You see, faith isn't really as strong as they'd like to think, and that's a scary thought for them.

Edited to add: Congratulations on going through that together and coming to the same conclusions!

BadBadBad

Carrie,

I'm another resident expert on being married to a fundie, and raising kids in that wacky world. I can share some interesting concepts:

1. Anything you teach the kids will be seen as the devil's influence. You will be trying to lead the kids to damnation. Fundy's don't really believe in Free Will. They want to brainwash kids, into believing there is only one choice. Whether your husband falls into this fundie line of thinking explicitly, it's embedded into his belief system.

2. What is fundieism without Church? If your kids go to church, particularly Baptist church, they will be confronted with Satan, Hell, Jesus, and the whole God thing. They will be taught to fear Hell, Satan, and anyone leading them away from God. They will be terrified of Satan and not believing in God. It won't just be you and your husband sharing your beliefs equally. It will be your husband backed by the authority of the whole church community. Whether it's once a week, once a month, or just on holidays, church is brainwashing. It will not be equal influence.

3. Church will be devisive. If you go, you'll lend support to the brainwashing going on over in the kids Sunday school. "Mommy look! See my pretty picture? I colored it my favorite color and stayed inside the lines and everything. See, it says Jesus Loves Me!" Don't you just want to vommit now?

If you don't go, and the kids do, that will fit in nicely with their message of the day about how some people aren't with God. They're not going to Heaven. You see, you're just not going to get a fair shot against that.

4. There is christianity and there is atheism. For the kids, there is full indoctrination or there is sin and damnation.

You better understand whether your husband is willing to accept damnation for the kids and whether he's willing to be complicit in your sin. There's no middle ground.

Vicar Philip

Carrie,

Not that I'm adding anything new to what everyone else has said, but please, please resolve your religious differences BEFORE you get pregnant. Believe me, it will save you much heartache someday.

The hardest part for me is having to (sort-of) swallow my pride and allow my kids to attend a Christian summer camp, for example. They went last year, when I still somewhat believed, and had a blast. My beliefs shouldn't prevent them from having fun. Every indication was the camp wasn't shoving Jesus down their throats, because my boys didn't talk about god, they talked about the horses they rode.

So anyway, decide now. I can honestly say that if kids weren't involved in my situation, either I would have left by now or my wife would have. However, the love we have cultivated through all the years of raising kids and making it on our own has won out. I can't say the same for someone else's situation.

Arvel Joffi

Carrie,

I think you need to seriously consider whether or not to have children with him. I really don't think that people with such remarkably different ideaologies should have kids. I can't help but imagine the first time that Jr. gets upset when realizes that mommy is going to hell. Every single Sunday that children are in church with dad, or not at church because mom is a nonbeliever will be a burr in your relationship. It will wear on you and I think the most probable outcome - unless one of you changes their views - is divorce.

Just wait as long as you can on the decision about children. If you're new to atheism your husband may be harboring a hope that you come back into the fold; or you may wishing that he will see reason and all will be fine. Don't have children until you know what's going on between you.

I don't mean to be negative, but I think your differences are too extreme for a healthy compromise.


Take care.

avalanche:ix

even though i'm a guy, i believe that the mother holds the most rights as to choosing which way to raise their children, unless ofcourse it's in a way which would justify calling in social services.

if he does not accept the way you want to raise your children, then obviously he's not the guy to have them with. or he's not the one to stay with after you've had the children. this is not an issue that anyone should back down on, it affects not just you but the lives of your (future) children aswell. every person should have the right to grow up free of indoctrination.