Bloop

Kama:
Is there a point where a human is deemed beyond criticism ?

Know what ? I agree.

Apparently

Now we are getting somewhere.

Charles Keating stole a LOT of money from people. Some of it he gave to MT. When Keating was on trial she wrote a letter on his behalf to the trial judge Ito (of OJ trial fame). A prosecutor wrote a letter back asking that she'd return the money she had gotten from Keating because it wasn't his money to spend. Nothing happened.

Do you deny this ?

The Missionary of Charity raised millions upon millions of dollars. How much of this money has been used in activities that served "the poorest of the poor" directly ? All information that is provided with reasonable detail points to very crude facilities with little or no medical help offered by people with little or no medical training.

Do you deny this ?

The ideology or dogma of the MoC, specifically the vow of poverty and the sadistic bend towards pain as something positive puts a big no no on using expensive stuff like disposable hypodermic needles or strong painkillers.

Do you deny this ?

From the page you supplied:

<a href="http://www.tisv.be/mt/oppo.htm" target="_blank">Opponents</a>

So here it is clear that MT was not into unnecessarily feeding or giving medical aid to the poor. She says so herself.

There are other charity organisations at work in Calcutta. They are not as well known however.

Overpopulation is a huge problem in these parts of the world. Do you believe MT's fierce anti-abortion/pro-life stance and her dislike for birth control methods in general is adding or subtracting to these problems ?

As galiel has pointed out. The failure of Christopher Hitchens, galiel or me to devote our lives to the poorest of the poor has NOTHING to do with the possible wrongdoings of Mommy T.

The page I quoted from is entitled Opponents but I don't see Hitchens name or many of his points mentioned anywhere. His book has been around for some years now. This goes for a plethora of MT fan sites. Very few deals with these allegations at all.

The last point is the portrayal of MT in the west by herself and media. The picture presented is that of someone that helps poor people in the way we usually mean here in the west. Food, clothes and a place to stay for the night. Medical help, schools and education are other viable options. Most people in the west believed that they donated money to such things.

Do you deny this ?

[ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: Bloop ]</p>

hinduwoman

Corgan, Mother Teresa did not actually do anything.
Her only positive contribution was to give the destitute dying a floor to die on, but govt. hospitals could have provided it as well.
One of my relatives went to work for her and came back calling her "cutthroat mother teresa". She did not give the dying any medicine, because pain would bring them closer to Jesus.

lunachick

The resulting reduction in her expenditure, and increase in personal profit was purely coincidental! Honest.

XGuilt

Rather than add to all the subjective, foul criticisms of Mother Teresa, however humorous or accurate they may have been expressed by other atheists, I will offer an objective, informed criticism that you may not realize underlies many, if not most, of the atheists' comments you find objectionable: Because of Mother Teresa's "good work" in the slums of Calcutta - i.e., her undying support of the Catholic Church's irrational and arbitrary ban on contraceptives, as but only one example - she was a primary CAUSE of the very rampant starvation, disease and depravity she set herself up to allegedly fight as her 'cause-celeb' in life. Rather than 'permit' the simple and readily available cure for all this human suffering and misery, she perpetuated it, and without such suffering and misery she would have had no 'mission' in life AND her self-appointed masters at the Vatican would have been short one more 'saint' to add to their self-aggrandizing rolls - as usual, at the expense of humanity, itself.

While you may take offense to atheists' negative comments and derisive humor where this woman is concerned, just for a moment consider that underneath all that are a lot of very valid and utterly defensible, OBJECTIVE facts about her that freethinkers refuse to allow to be white-washed, as the Catholic Church and its followers seem so incredibly, predictably eager to do. And if you've never been to Calcutta and witnessed, first-hand, the appalling poverty and suffering that's been perpetuated in the name of Catholic dogma and by those who peddle it on its streets and back alleys - AS Mother Teresa factually did, your objectivity in criticizing others' more informed comments is clearly questionable. And remember, too, that many people mask their (legitimate) contempt for the actions of others quite often with humor.

As for me, I find all self-annointed martyrs nauseating, and the imposition on humanity of their ulterior-motivated "good work" quite contemptible, indeed...

DMB

Working in one of the most overcrowded cities in the world, she spoke out vehemently not just against abortion but also against contraception.

Her care for the dying poor denied them effective analgesics or any worthwhile medical aid. Nevertheless, when she herself was ill, she was flown to America and given the most expensive and up-to-date medical reatment available.

This certainly smacks of hypocrisy, although I imagine that she was under pressure from the catholic church to have the treatment. They no doubt saw her as a cash cow that they wanted to milk for the maximum time possible. Her fast-track canonisation will no doubt help to keep the money flowing.

What really riles me about all this is what I feel about religion in general: it is a massive diversion of resources from real human needs. All that money that poured into MT's coffers could have done real good if applied to primary health care and education for the poor of Calcutta and elsewhere.

Amos

Instead of driving home the fame of Mother Theresa with your criticisms that reeks with envy and animosity, why don't you all go to Calcutta with a sack full of condoms and abortion pills each and hand these out to the poor in the true spirit of benevolence. If indeed MT was 'that' wrong in what she did maybe this will snatch for you the Nobel Prize for the Advancement of Science.

Oresta

Arrowman,
Perhaps you were thinking of Larson's classic wherein cows are grazing, and one looks up in bovine astonishment and says to the others, "This is grass, we've been eating grass!

Corgan Sow

I didn't claim MT is a bitch. Now you're doing the name-callings, eh? <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> I'm surprised no moderator warned you.

[Okay guys, there's no need to wax Emily Dickenson about each other, okay?]

[ October 27, 2002: Message edited by: Bree ]</p>

DMB

As a matter of fact, I am giving a lot of support to a programme that provides primary health-care (including reproductive health care) and some feeding and income generation for slum people in another part of India.

Kama

Corgan Sow aka John Lennon aka Machina weapon
I SAID IF TERESA IS A B***** TO YOU!

For the one named galiel
So it's ok for her to be a fraud, because there are other frauds? What kind or moral relativism is that?? Your logic is breathtaking.
Nope.Her fraud is hearsay,Sister Nirmala and the order have not been put to trial yet, right?
Now Hitchens logic, that is mind boggling
*teresa has 50 million just collecting interest for purgatory.No there is no use to it*
*hearsay*
Hitchens mom ran away with a clergy guy
Hitchens mad :angry:

Humans are not perfect? Agreed? Rational? Logical?
Answer,while you are at it name some of them fully infallible all charity (INFIDEL) foundation

How do you make that leap of logic?
Easy,take all the good that comes from her missions x number of other Catholic hoodlums that suck on the $$ =General good

Or that debunking a counterfeit miracle (like the Shroud of Turin) debunks all miracles?
Nope ,mere contextual comprehension problem maybe?

For the one named Bloop
Is there a point where a human is deemed beyond criticism ?
No.
I asked Is there a point in Roman Catholicism,where a human is deemed infallible? Pope?

Charles Keating stole a LOT of money from people. Some of it he gave to MT. When Keating was on trial she wrote a letter on his behalf to the trial judge Ito (of OJ trial fame). A prosecutor wrote a letter back asking that she'd return the money she had gotten from Keating because it wasn't his money to spend. Nothing happened.

You tell me what did she do with all that fraud money?
Buy a new sari perhaps
When Mother Theresa died, the Congregation had 3,604 members with vows, along with 411 novices and 260 aspirants. The congregation operates in 119 countries (both developed and developing) and has 560 "tabernacles," as they call their houses.

And do you have any link to articles other than that grunt Hitchens
book with solid facts and whereabouts of one Ms Shields?

The Missionary of Charity raised millions upon millions of dollars. How much of this money has been used in activities that served "the poorest of the poor" directly ? All information that is provided with reasonable detail points to very crude facilities with little or no medical help offered by people with little or no medical training.
Cite sources .
$50 million lasts for how many days with 560 homes worldwide and growing.
She and her little army of sisters were there to bring spiritual comfort to the suffering, a concept that apparently escapes her critics.

So here it is clear that MT was not into unnecessarily feeding or giving medical aid to the poor. She says so herself.
Not feeding?You mean steak and sausage ? Have you been to the great land of the special chandalas namely dalits and pariahs ?
Not including cursed lepers,mad ones widows etc,etc
You presume that everyone that have been giving to her cause all this years did not know what was happening behind that nunnery?
Catholics are worldwide,MTs charity is not the sole social service
by the grunts at Vatican.If you have the time, maybe debunk them all start with the "Little Sisters of the poor"
You do realise when I wrote "this is debunking all charity", I had the whole Catholic family in mind and the fallibility of human beings.

Heres me helping you out
Catholic Swindlers
<a href="http://www.vaticanbankclaims.com/faqs.html" target="_blank">http://www.vaticanbankclaims.com/faqs.html</a>
The Vatican has repeatedly denied any participation in Ustashe crimes or the disappearance of the Croatian Treasury yet has refused to open its wartime records despite requests from the US government, Jewish and Roma organizations.

Overpopulation is a huge problem in these parts of the world. Do you believe MT's fierce anti-abortion/pro-life stance and her dislike for birth control methods in general is adding or subtracting to these problems ?
ON THE VALUE AND INVIOLABILITY OF HUMAN LIFE
<a href="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031995_evangelium-vitae_en.html" target="_blank">http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031995_evangelium-vitae_en.html</a>

"Whatever is opposed to life itself, such as any type of murder, genocide, abortion, euthanasia, or wilful self-destruction, whatever violates the integrity of the human person, such as mutilation, torments inflicted on body or mind, attempts to coerce the will itself; whatever insults human dignity, such as subhuman living conditions, arbitrary imprisonment, deportation, slavery, prostitution, the selling of women and children; as well as disgraceful working conditions, where people are treated as mere instruments of gain(like momma teresa did ) rather than as free and responsible persons; all these things and others like them are infamies indeed. They poison human society, and they do more harm to those who practise them than to those who suffer from the injury.

Birth control is allowed through contraception.(Vatican II)

The current Pope and MT felt that research and emphasis in this fields are

"causing a profound change in the way in which life and relationships between people are considered"

"with the new prospects opened up by scientific and technological progress there arise new forms of attacks on the dignity of the human being. At the same time a new cultural climate is developing and taking hold, which gives crimes against life a new and—if possible—even more sinister character, giving rise to further grave concern: broad sectors of public opinion justify certain crimes against life in the name of the rights of individual freedom, and on this basis they claim not only exemption from punishment but even authorization by the State"

"It is frequently asserted that contraception, if made safe and available to all, is the most effective remedy against abortion. The Catholic Church is then accused of actually promoting abortion, because she obstinately continues to teach the moral unlawfulness of contraception. When looked at carefully, this objection is clearly unfounded. It may be that many people use contraception with a view to excluding the subsequent temptation of abortion. But the negative values inherent in the "contraceptive mentality"—which is very different from responsible parenthood, lived in respect for the full truth of the conjugal act—are such that they in fact strengthen this temptation when an unwanted life is conceived."

Read the article and maybe open another thread.

"the text of Hippocrates (460-377 BCE), which has formed the ethical basis for doctors for the last 2,300 years could now be discarded.The "offending" passage reads, "I will give no deadly medicine to anyone if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give a woman a pessary to produce abortion."

Food, clothes and a place to stay for the night.
I am definite her order does that.Proof me wrong.

For the one named hinduwoman
Yeah thats great.Welcome to Calcutta cuthroat land of ******
or is it nastikas

For the one named lunachick


For the one named XGuilt
and the imposition on humanity of their ulterior-motivated "good work" quite contemptible
State here what did Teresa,Nirmala etc have now as a nun?
Sure you can say those pedo grunts at US are wasting $ litigating from prison.I accept.
But
Humans are not perfect? Agreed? Rational? Logical?

For the one named DMB
This certainly smacks of hypocrisy, although I imagine that she was under pressure from the catholic church to have the treatment
Dont forget that main papal grunt
it is a massive diversion of resources from real human needs.
State here what did MT did not give to humanistic need.A playstation?
MT's coffers could have done real good if applied to primary health care and education for the poor of Calcutta and elsewhere.
You have never been to the nooks and cranny of India or Calcutta
have you?And I presume you dont know all this worldwide Catholic hoodlums either do you?
National Apostolate for Inclusion Ministry, the National Catholic Council on Alcoholism, the National Catholic Office for Persons with Disabilities, the National Catholic Office for the Deaf, the Institute on Religious Life, the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious, the Little Sisters of the Poor and the Franciscan Sisters of the Eucharist in Meriden

I am giving a lot of support to a programme
May I know what programme that might be,if you dont mind

Tata
Kama
A poor seeker of knowledge