Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sweep · 06-10-2003, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Anyone who has an opinion, has a belief to back that opinion. I'm just saying that having an empty set of beliefs is not possible. Perhaps what is meant is that Goliath has not decided yet on this issue...

I'm with you on this one Tarnaak. The existence of 'no-gods seems to be quite a sore spot around these parts. Something to do with living in close proximity with vehement god-pushers, I think.

As for me, I don't believe in wizards or w.i.m.p.s. but I don't have a beef with them either. Someone says god, I say Oh yeah! I'd forgotten about that old chestnut

anyhoos, this bit is to justify derailing Q of Swords thread. Well, according to our medium my Grandad is on 'the other side' celebrating with his son and the guy who brought him up. This guy was a real bruiser, so i guess he cheated his way into heaven. Perhaps that explains the celebration.

Tarnaak · 06-10-2003, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QueenofSwords
Originally posted by Proctors_Gambit
Not meaning to be insensitive QoS, but does anyone else note the irony that a christian receiving chemotherapy would have the audacity to tell an athiest that THEY will be punished before they die.

I had the feeling that both my parents were repeating things someone else had told them. They are not vindictive people, and if God had descended to earth with a taser in one hand and a pair of pliers in the other, to mete out the aforementioned punishment to me, I don't think my mother would have sat back and said, "Well, there you go, I told you so." I think she would have hit him with her IV stand.

What I would like to know is from where they got the idea of God's vengeance towards atheists who answer questions set to them by Christians who later deconvert. My parents aren't the type to think this up by themselves, so I wonder if their pastor might have told them this. I doubt I'll ever know, though.

The way to find out if someone is sputting forth heresay or knowlege, it have them explain how they came to the opinion they did. If they can't qoute the Scripture or at least give an idea of where it can be found, then its proly heresay

Tarnaak · 06-10-2003, 03:11 PM

as a side note,

It is my understanding that God only "chastens" HIS children. If you are not a believer, then he will not "punish" you for a specific thing. God does however use tragedy to try and pull you in, to hopefully have you seek him. But there is a difference between punishment and chastening....

Queen of Swords · 06-10-2003, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by Tarnaak
God does however use tragedy to try and pull you in, to hopefully have you seek him.

Assuming that God is responsible for the tragedy or allows it to happen, it will probably not have its desired effect, since I can't see myself kissing the hand which slaps me around. Of course, I'm sure enough people do this to reinforce God's use of violence, much like abused wives becoming enablers of the behavior rather than standing up to it.

I don't see why, in lieu of tragedy, God can't use other methods, but perhaps it is easier to maim someone for life or kill their children than to, for example, appear before them and say, "I am God and I want to pull you in and have you seek me."

Proctors_Gambit · 06-10-2003, 09:36 PM

Yeah, comments like that really get my goat.

Christians will always talk about how Glorious the story of Job is. That God allowed him to be tested but Job stood firm in his faith.
How many people stop to think about the Job story from the perspective of Job's wife, or one of his sons...
All killed so that God could prove a point to satan, ending in an outcome that God, being omniscient anyway, knew would happen. Making the whole exercise pointless.

Suffering which brings you closer to your tormentor... Is the term Stockholm Syndrome?

-Gambit

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06-10-2003, 03:11 PM	#63
Tarnaak Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 106	as a side note, It is my understanding that God only "chastens" HIS children. If you are not a believer, then he will not "punish" you for a specific thing. God does however use tragedy to try and pull you in, to hopefully have you seek him. But there is a difference between punishment and chastening....

06-10-2003, 09:28 PM	#64
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Originally posted by Tarnaak God does however use tragedy to try and pull you in, to hopefully have you seek him. Assuming that God is responsible for the tragedy or allows it to happen, it will probably not have its desired effect, since I can't see myself kissing the hand which slaps me around. Of course, I'm sure enough people do this to reinforce God's use of violence, much like abused wives becoming enablers of the behavior rather than standing up to it. I don't see why, in lieu of tragedy, God can't use other methods, but perhaps it is easier to maim someone for life or kill their children than to, for example, appear before them and say, "I am God and I want to pull you in and have you seek me."

06-10-2003, 09:36 PM	#65
Proctors_Gambit Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 372	Yeah, comments like that really get my goat. Christians will always talk about how Glorious the story of Job is. That God allowed him to be tested but Job stood firm in his faith. How many people stop to think about the Job story from the perspective of Job's wife, or one of his sons... All killed so that God could prove a point to satan, ending in an outcome that God, being omniscient anyway, knew would happen. Making the whole exercise pointless. Suffering which brings you closer to your tormentor... Is the term Stockholm Syndrome? -Gambit

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