MortalWombat

So, Franc, you have no problem with a company who refuses to hire, say, blacks, or hispanics, or women?

Francois Tremblay

Of course I'd have a problem with it. I would oppose such a thing. But that doesn't mean we should take away their right to do it. We all have the right to associate or not associate with whoever we want.

It's like the right to free speech. I may think most people are bloody idiots who shouldn't speak from ignorance, but that doesn't mean I would pass a law against it. If the discrimination is morally unwarranted, the losses to their business from the boycotts and lack of customers is the consequence.

I'm not sure exactly what this has to do with the Tree Parable, though. We should move this discussion to the Philosophy board.

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: Franc28 ]</p>

Tinman

If a parable is "explained" doesn't it risk losing its ability to get one thinking? It's stealth technology of the oldest kind.

Having said that, let me completely reverse myself and suggest that, in my experience, there is quite possibly nothing that defies rational explanation. There are mysteries, but not contradictions, yet I relish the mysteries. I'm sure there must be some phenomena which are currently beyond our understanding. If anyone can think of any, I'd love to hear them. Kudos Mojo (although I doubt you care much for them).

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: Tinman ]</p>

lpetrich

It seems as if Franc28's idea of "socialism" includes the punishment of crime, because the perpetrator of a crime is essentially stronger and more successful than the victim.

It can be argued that governments do their subjects a great disservice by punishing criminals, because that enables people to be lazy and careless and unwilling to defend what they claim to value. In fact, the government ought to consider making a firm rule about crime: that crime victims must take full responsibility for allowing crimes to happen to them, and not blame others for their misfortunes.

In fact, under such a system, you ought to become a criminal, because if you succeed, your victims have nobody to blame but themselves for becoming victims.

Francois Tremblay

Actually your idea isn't that bad. I've often thought about criminality being some kind of tangible market good in a sense - as stimulating demand in needful security.

This argument is little more than rhetoric because of individual rights, of course. I don't seriously believe that true criminality shouldn't be stopped, any more than I believe that old trees shouldn't be cut. I suppose there is a point where the analogy breaks down, of course...

MOJO-JOJO

I also believe that this song was penned by Neil Peart and Geddy Lee in reference to the conditions that lead to the event honored by one of your biggest holidays......Bastille Day.

So maybe it would no longer be appropriate in our day and age (although South Africa is a pretty good example), but it was certainly appropriate in 18th century France, eh Franckie?!

[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: MOJO-JOJO ]</p>

MOJO-JOJO

Well, I USED to....when I was a fundie. The difference is that NOW when I entertain anything outside of the box of reason and evidence, I correctly identify it as fiction, myth or imagination.