Polycarp

Quote:

Originally posted by God Fearing Atheist: My question is: what exactly is wrong with infanticide, as such?

Excellent point ! First, they started out trying to stop the killing of babies, and the next thing you know they'll be trying to ban the murder of children, teens, and (dog forbid) adults !! I rue the day that wicked religion of Christianity began...

Layman

I agree completely, which is why I spent so much time on the "build up." The banning of infanticide was the result of a fundamental shift in perspective on the issue of infanticide. It happened only after the majority of the Roman Empire converted. If a ban had been passed by some Christian Emperor without any change in society, it would have been no more effectual than Emperor Julian's attempt to revitalive paganism.

God Fearing Atheist

There is a difference between killing an infant and (attempting) to kill a fully endowed adult. Unlike fetuses or newborns, adult humans can reciprocate force.

God Fearing Atheist

Its simply an aesthetic preference. There is nothing moral or immoral about it.

I see no problem with infanticide as such, nor do i suggest we all kill our newborns.

Layman

I agree there is a difference, but how does this justify the killing of the infant? The fact that the victim is defenseless is usually taken to mean that the act of killing was even more abhorrent. Are you saying that the fact that the victim is defenseless actually makes the killing moral?

Layman

What is the difference between an "aesthetic prefernce" and morality?

BK

I believe it was Emerson who said "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." GFA, I don't believe for a second you find nothing immoral about killing infants. I strongly suspect that you are merely taking this position because you are fully aware that agreeing that infanticide is immoral is a tacit admission that such a thing as absolute morality existing--which of course it can't if there is no God. In following this fallacy, you have stated something that I doubt any neutral observer would doubt, even for a moment, was a monumentally stupid thing to say.

Infanticide is simply an aesthetic preference? If you really believe that, I have two words for you: get help.

BK

Vorkosigan

BK, all of us believe infanticide is wrong. That does not mean that there is an absolute morality. It depends on one's point of view. Obviously, if there were an absolute morality, there would not be so many different takes on infanticide in so many different cultures.

Additionally, if there are no gods, there could still be absolute morality. There are also many different takes on absolutism in morality -- Confucian, Buddhist -- and so forth.

Welcome back, BTW. Where have you been?

Michael

BK

That sure isn't what GFA said. I believe you, but I don't believe him.
So, then you are saying that it would be acceptable to practice infanticide if you lived in one of the societies that practice infanticide or hold it to be an acceptable practice? Seriously, this is what rubs me so wrong with the no absolute morality take: if there is no absolute morality, then I cannot say that infanticide is wrong at all times in all cultures. I believe it obvious that it is, and I believe that you would agree that it is. But if it is merely societal preference, then I have no right to say that the practice is wrong.

You are more knowledgeable than I am in this area. I have no idea whether Buddhists or other groups believe in absolute morality, or if they do, how they support that belief, logically.

Well, thank you. I didn't think anyone would remember me. I don't have as much time to spend on the computer as I would like having four kids and four jobs. I only came on board because Layman is an e-mail pal of mine who told me about GFA's post, and I couldn't resist. I decided to drop in on the melee about the Jesus Myth, too, because that is one of my favorite arguments. I never know how long I can stay when I show up. It depends upon the demand on my time (which will shortly increase in that I will be managing my son's baseball team beginnig next month). How have you been?

BK

Michael[/QB][/QUOTE]

Layman

While I presume that most skeptics--like Turtonm-- believe infanticide to be immoral, GFA was clear that he is not one of them.