Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Hayden · 05-07-2003, 06:24 PM

Quote:

A New York judge has awarded nearly $104m in damages to the families of two victims of the 11 September terror attacks.

But interestingly:

Quote:

Judge Baer said in his ruling: "I conclude that plaintiffs have shown, albeit barely, by evidence satisfactory to the court, that Iraq provided material support to bin Laden and al-Qaeda."

The evidence was based on a statement by Secretary of State Colin Powell to the UN Security Council on 5 February.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3009251.stm

I don't get it. How does an assertion during a speech by Colin Powell - much less a speech, parts of which have shown to be blatant mis-truths - constitute evidence in a court of law?

By the way, none of the US news reports I saw about this mentioned that Powell's speech was the primary evidence.

HR

Hayden · 05-07-2003, 06:35 PM

Google News

This also cracks me up:

Quote:

Baer, in a written decision released Wednesday by the U.S. District Court in Manhattan, said that the standard of proof required for the case was much lower than that in a normal civil action, because the defendants did not contest the case.

From here

Yeah, I'm sure Saddam and Osama were going to turn up in an American court!

How were they even served notice?

HR

theyeti · 05-07-2003, 07:12 PM

Amazing. Simply amazing. Satire is fast becoming redundant.

From the article:

Quote:

The judge also cited claims by former CIA director James Woolsey that the apparent leader of the 11 September hijackers, Mohamed Atta, met an Iraqi intelligence agent in Prague in April 2001.

Oh what, you mean the discredited claim that Atta had met with Iraqi intelligence? The one that the Chezs have stated there is no evidence for and never was?

Quote:

"Although these experts provided few actual facts of any material support that Iraq actually provided, their opinions... provide a sufficient basis for a reasonable jury to draw inferences which could lead to the conclusion that Iraq provided material support to al-Qaeda," the judge said.

Could lead to the conclusion? Could!? Is that the standard of proof in such cases? Mere plausibility?

theyeti

Abacus · 05-07-2003, 07:52 PM

Sometimes it is just downright embarrasing to be an American.

Loren Pechtel · 05-07-2003, 09:47 PM

This is simply more evidence of the problems with lawsuits in this country.

I suspect the judge was right. There probably was some connection between them--they both hated us and therefore might very well pass on information.

The problem is with joint and several liability. The guys on the edge with some tiny percent of fault shouldn't be left holding the bag.

NonHomogenized · 05-07-2003, 10:21 PM

I'm embarrassed to live in a country where shit like this happens.

leonarde · 05-07-2003, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Yeah, I'm sure Saddam and Osama were going to turn up in an American court!

How were they even served notice?

In the case of the FORMER, the notice was probably served at the Iraqi embassy to the US. Remember, we're not talking an INDIVIDUAL being sued but a government.

Cheers!

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ · 05-07-2003, 11:35 PM

This will (hopefully) get destroyed in appeal.

Evangelion · 05-08-2003, 01:12 PM

My goodness, this is certainly an invaluable learning experience for a non-American such as myself.

So, here we see how the American legal system works, yes? Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. And how very different to the legal system of my own country!

I never cease to be... intrigued (for want of a better word) by the quaint and curious customs of your noble land, Americans. Please, do tell me more.

Ab_Normal · 05-08-2003, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Abacus
Sometimes it is just downright embarrasing to be an American.

Sometimes? You're doing better than I am.

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05-07-2003, 07:52 PM	#4
Abacus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Dakota Posts: 2,214	Sometimes it is just downright embarrasing to be an American.

05-07-2003, 09:47 PM	#5
Loren Pechtel Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Not Mayaned Posts: 96,752	This is simply more evidence of the problems with lawsuits in this country. I suspect the judge was right. There probably was some connection between them--they both hated us and therefore might very well pass on information. The problem is with joint and several liability. The guys on the edge with some tiny percent of fault shouldn't be left holding the bag.

05-07-2003, 10:21 PM	#6
NonHomogenized Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: no longer at IIDB Posts: 1,644	I'm embarrassed to live in a country where shit like this happens.

05-07-2003, 11:35 PM	#8
Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Heaven Posts: 6,980	This will (hopefully) get destroyed in appeal.

05-08-2003, 01:12 PM	#9
Evangelion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Walsall, UK Posts: 1,490	My goodness, this is certainly an invaluable learning experience for a non-American such as myself. So, here we see how the American legal system works, yes? Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. And how very different to the legal system of my own country! I never cease to be... intrigued (for want of a better word) by the quaint and curious customs of your noble land, Americans. Please, do tell me more.

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