Amos

They do Helen but we must be born of water and spirit to complete our salvation. To be born of the spirit is easy enough but work out our own salvation we must have John the Baptist on our side who was reborn in our subconscious mind and there paves the way for us so we can get through the purgation period. Remember here that John was from the netherworld and that he was [re]born of old and that Elizabeth lived in the hills, etc. That John was beheaded and all of these things point to the fact that rebirth is a non-rational event initiated by John from the netherworld that now gradually becomes a rational event wherein we are in charge of our destiny.

At one time they called this involutional melancholy but it appears that this word is now archaic.

I should clarify that John did initiate rebirth because it was incipient from God. Do you see the involuntary motivation in this? Take note, then, that this involuntary movement is just opposite to willfully accepting Jesus into your heart (whatever that means).

HelenM

Thanks, Amos

Thieving Magpie

'Once saved, always saved' is hardly the case. I do not doubt that you were a Christian, but you should not presume that you were among the most faithful, and most 'Christian' of all Christians. You don't know what anyone else has experienced, if you believe that no one knows what you have experienced. In short, if I should not presume to say what I do, then you should not presume to say as you do.

Quite the contrary should be the case, in fact, as we are all people, and as such, have certain characteristics. I can presume to know many things about you blondegoddess, much as you can presume to know many things about me. I may not always be right, but neither are you.

If someone has 'true faith' or so-called 'faith like a child' in Christianity, then doubt, if it does surface, is ultimately resolved. It's rather funny, I think, because such faith is a denial of intelligence (in some ways) - particularily the intelligence that comes with the physical and emotional maturity of growing up. It can be difficult for an adult to have faith like a child, but never the less, it is the ideal that Christians ought to pursue. It is also an ideal that some reach, and as a result of which, they never return to more.. rational thoughts.

Philosoft

Well hello, Mr. Tautology. And it just pushes the problem back one level. How do we identifty True Christians™? They practice Christianity all their lives. How do we know that someone who practiced Christianity all her life is a True Christian™?

Thieving Magpie

We don't. That is not really my point.

My point was simply that one cannot claim to be among the best in having 'Christian faith' if they do eventually lose it, and never get it back, when there are those who never lose it (which is preferable, and possible).

beth

You know, I've hardly understood one thing that you've said. One thing I understand about this is...it's pure rubbish!

Thieving Magpie

Well.. I'm convinced.

Philosoft

How do we determine that what the person in question had faith in was actually what you assume is "Christian faith"? Do you believe that both a Quaker and a Southern Baptist who never lose their faiths are both True Christians™?

livius drusus

Hi blondegoddess,

I haven't posted in this thread so far because my deconversion had virtually no negative emotional or social repercussions. However, some of the responses you've gotten from your (former) brethren have pissed me off so I can only imagine how painful and/or infuriating they must be to you at such a difficult time in your life.

Please feel free to ask a moderator to move this thread to Secular Lifestyle & Support where theist smug self-righteousness is kept on a very short leash.

Best of luck to you.

seebs

I think you may be generalizing too much; not all people have the same approach to faith, nor should we. If God had only wanted one kind of person, He would have made Adam and said "hey, nice work, time to take a break and have some beers", and that would be it.

Many people have very different experiences of faith than you describe.