brighid

The objectification first and foremost exists within a culture, community or religions desire to control the behaviors, thoughts and actions of its women. Christianity, at least in the West is the chief motivator for men influenced by its culture and religious doctrines to objectify women. Eve is the prime example of how Christianity historically and presently views women. Through out history Eve has fared worse in the eyes of men and the Eves (all women) of the world has suffered far worse then they currently do in America. One need only look to other major religions that seek to dominate women such as Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism, as well as Christianity even if some of the sects of these religions don’t practice the same degree of misogyny or objectification as others. We have been taught to submit our actions to our husbands, that we are have been inflicted with the pains of child birth for the sins of Mother Eve, that we may be redeemed through that pain, we are bought and sold in the Bible, our value is often times less (such as the virgin girl being given the foreign soldiers in Sodom and Gommorha), we must be silent, be covered, etc.

Now, let us look historically in America about the issue of women’s rights, objectification and dehumanization.

1848 When the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo brings the southwest under U.S. law, married women living in the region lose their property rights, and can no longer enter into contracts, sue in court, or operate their own businesses.

1850 Quaker physicians establish the Female (later Woman's) Medical College of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia to give women a chance to learn medicine. Due to threats against them, the first women graduated under police guard

1860 Of 2,225,086 Black women, 1,971,135 are held in slavery. In San Francisco, about 85% of Chinese women are essentially enslaved as prostitutes.

1866 14th Amendment is passed by Congress (ratified by the states in 1868), the first time "citizens" and "voters" are defined as "male" in the Constitution.

1872 November 5: Susan B. Anthony and fourteen women register and vote in the presidential election to test whether the recently adopted Fourteenth Amendment can be interpreted as protecting women's rights. Anthony is arrested, tried, found guilty, and fined $100, which she refuses to pay.

1873 Prof. Edward H. Clarke, Harvard Medical College, argues that higher education harms women and their future offspring. To women's real detriment, Clarke is widely believed and quoted for decades.

1873 Bradwell v. Illinois: Supreme Court affirms that states can restrict women from the practice of any profession to preserve family harmony and uphold the law of the Creator.

1873 Congress passes the Comstock Law, defining contraceptive information as "obscene material." As postal inspector, moralist Anthony Comstock seizes mail and shuts down newspapers carrying such information

1900 Two-thirds of divorce cases are initiated by the wife; a century earlier, most women lacked the right to sue and were hopelessly locked into bad marriages.

1913 On March 3, 5-8,000 suffragists parade in Washington, D.C., drawing people away from newly-elected President Wilson's arrival in the city. They are mobbed by abusive crowds along the way.

1917 October: 168 National Woman's Party members are arrested and convicted for peacefully picketing the White House for woman suffrage, becoming the first U.S. citizens held as political prisoners. In prison, they staged hunger strikes and were force fed. In response to public outcry, they are eventually released without comment or pardon.

1920 On August 26, the 19th Amendment to the Constitution is ratified, guaranteeing American women citizens the right to vote. It is quietly signed into law in a ceremony to which the press and suffragists were not invited

1932 The National Recovery Act forbids more than one family member from holding a government job, resulting in many women losing their jobs.

1940 One-fifth of white women and one-third of black women are wage earners. 60% of the black women are still domestics, compared with 10% of white women. Among Japanese American women workers, almost 38% are in agriculture and 24% in domestic service.

1941 A massive government and industry media campaign persuades women to take jobs during the war. Almost 7 million women respond, 2 million as industrial "Rosie the Riveters" and 400,000 joining the military.

1945 The Equal Pay for Equal Work bill is again introduced into Congress (see 1872). It passes in 1963.

1945 Women industrial workers begin to lose their jobs in large numbers to returning service men, although surveys show 80% want to continue working.

1955 Women earn an average of 63 cents for every dollar earned by men.

1960 Women now earn only 60 cents for every dollar earned by men, a decline since 1955. Women of color earn only 42 cents.

1964 Title VII of the Civil Rights Act bars employment discrimination by private employers, employment agencies, and unions based on race, sex, and other grounds. To investigate complaints and enforce penalties, it establishes the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), which receives 50,000 complaints of gender discrimination in its first five years

1965 Griswold v Connecticut, Supreme Court overturns one of the last state laws prohibiting the prescription or use of contraceptives by married couples.

1969 In Bowe v. Colgate-Palmolive, the Supreme Court rules that women meeting the physical requirements can work in many jobs that had been for men only.

1970 Women wages fall to 59 cents for every dollar earned by men. Although nonwhite women earn even less, the gap is closing between white women and women of color

1972 Title IX of the Education Amendments requires that "No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving federal financial assistance."

1973 In Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court establishes a woman's right to abortion, effectively canceling the anti-abortion laws of 46 states.

1976 In a groundbreaking law, marital rape becomes a crime in Nebraska

1978 The Pregnancy Discrimination Act amends the 1964 Civil Rights Act to ban employment discrimination against pregnant women

1984 Sex discrimination in the admission policies of organizations such as the Jaycees is forbidden by the Supreme Court in Roberts v. United States Jaycees, opening many previously all-male organizations to women.

1986 About 25% of scientists are now women, but they are still less likely than men to be full professors or on a tenure track in teaching. Only 3.5% of the National Academy of Sciences members are women (51 members); since the academy's 1863 founding, only 60 women have been elected

1992 Women are now paid 71 cents for every dollar paid to men. The range is from 64 cents for working-class women to 77cents for professional women with doctorates. Black women earned 65 cents, Latinas 54 cents

<a href="http://www.legacy98.org/timeline.html" target="_blank">http://www.legacy98.org/timeline.html</a>

Many of these changes have only been made in my generation (30 year old)! We are truly the 1st generation to enjoy the benefits of those men and women who fought for our rights so long ago. Although we have made great strides, there are still the similar attitudes and practices in place that hold women back. Thankfully, with the help of many men and women we will overcome those too. Our progress doesn’t mean we still aren’t oppressed in varying degrees, but I don’t think we must be held down by chains to address the real problems of gender inequities in this country.

It wasn’t too long ago that women couldn’t get a bank loan without a male co-signer, or married women couldn’t have a credit card in their own name! We aren’t that far removed from those attitudes and the reality that we don’t deserve as much, or our motherhood automatically impedes our ability to do a good job, or that wearing a mini-skirt gives a man the right to flirt, or that this really isn’t a problem for millions of American women and their families. It’s a real problem and I dare say that most women in this forum have experienced this equity issue in some degree or another through out their lives and many of us experience it today. I don’t have time this afternoon to get more into the Christian and religious aspects of it, but perhaps tomorrow if I haven’t bored everyone silly with my lengthy posts.

Brighid

snatchbalance

Brighid,

Just for fun, let's deconstruct some statistics:

Idiana State U. - assume average payrole : $10,000,000/year(it's probably much more).

190K/10m = 2% salary disperity.

And that includes minority males.

I will bet you that I can pull apart and show you the biases, and sloppy thinking taking place in any current social imapct study, if I had the time. They are designed to support a preconcived notion, in large part. This goes for both liberal and conservative camps.

Now, with all that being said, I would never argue the fact that, by and large, over the years, women and children have been subject to all sorts of brutality and discrimination. They were the weak and needy, they got the short end of the stick. No argument.

My only real point would be, that one cannot ignore the socialbiology underlieing that situation.

Have to run.

sb

snatchbalance

Brighid(and anybody else for that matter),

"All told, there is a significant shift from the past in the relative power of men and women. In the United States productive system in the mid-90's women earned 7.6% more than they did in 1979, while men earned 14% less. Women earn 40% of family income. In the early 1990's at least one of six wives earned more than her husband; in 1968, it was one in 18. According to Gail Sheehy, by 1996 nearly one of three wives earned more than her husband."

From: "the Decline of Males", p.5, by: Lionel Tiger

As you know, I'm no fan of statistics. But, I think you will find these hard to argue with. I think you would have to agree that current social and political trends favor women. And, believe it or not, that dosen't bother me at all.

sb

One other thought: "...These social scientists are to basic science about human nature as Christian Scientists are to medicine."

ibid, p.15

tronvillain

It seems quite likely that women are "penalized" for having children, since having children is far more likely to impact a mother's job than a father's (even with paternity leave becoming more common). Once we acknowledge that, we have to ask ourselves, is this a disparity that can and should be corrected?

tronvillain

Precambrian Carl:
Well, that's one possible explanation, but it is by no means definitive. Is "stays with with and children" inherently part of the definition of "mature"? Are mature people incapable of no longer finding a mate desirable or interesting? Are mature people not attracted to youth rather than age?

Apparently simple messages work better than complex ones when you are attempting to sell something. It does not follow from this that the target audience is immature, so I see no reason that it should not be mentioned.

I think Christians are wrong, but not that they are necessarily uneducated, superstitious, and gullible. While I have refrained from describing people thus far, I would describe anyone who does think that as ignorant or arrogant.

Well, if you're just talking about the marketing of tobacco and alcohol, they try to be "cool, sexy, and fun" and perhaps "sophisticated." Does this necessarily mean they depend on people being "immature" and "gullible"? I don't drink or smoke myself, but I don't think that it does.

Religions are virtually never sold as a product - as I have pointed out they are imprinted on trusting children by their parents and others. Anyway, the cosmetic industry sells hope? Here I was under the impression that they sold facial modification. Are you claiming that cosmetics make no difference to a person's appearance?

I on the other hand would not consider "immature jerk" to be redundant. I have know people people who are immature but not jerks, and people who are jerks but not immature.

Anyway, if pornography is indicative of immaturity, I don't want to be totally mature. If I am "mature" in most other ways but still enjoy pornography, what exactly would be the problem?

ju'iblex

<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> dammit brighid, you beat me to it.

Katey

This is probably because, statistically speaking, most Gen-X women are the ONLY income earners in a household with children at some point or the other. Divorce, single mothers, seperation...etc, etc...

I will agree that economic trends are favoring women. Actually, I think men are very slowly beginning to take a sort-of Vicortian-age female role in our society. They're less aggressive, less intelligent, less dominant, less territorial...and they have no desire to be any of these things. That's fine, though. It indicates that they're losing their status in society. That's something that will cause everyone a lot of problems.

snatchbalance

Katey,

Yes.

SB

The Other Michael

Hi Katey,

Less aggression, less domineering, less territorial - that sounds like men are getting MORE intelligent, not less.

cheers,
Michael

snatchbalance

Tron,

This is an interesting question.

I think it is undeniable that young mammals rely on thier mothers for survival. Can this bond be broken, on a large scale, without negative results? Can paid providers fill the gap?

Also, it seems that we may be creating another underclass while we're engaging in this experiment, low paid female child care providers. Is this a case of women objectifing and exploiting other women?

Just a thought.

SB