seebs

I believe that animals can, in some cases, form theories about the world. I would guess that about half the cats I've met "think". The other half are dumb animals. The distinction is generally obvious within the first ten minutes of meeting the animal.

I have no idea what, if any, the theological implications should be. I just like smart cats.

cricket

How do you know within ten minutes?

I am certain that Hissy is smarter than Pumpkin, but if I'd never owned either, I wouldn't know that.

Pumpkin just laid around, never figured out how to hunt birds, never did tricks for food... So he was either dumb or perhaps just indifferent. Hissy, though, was an awesome huntress. And would scratch her post for me if she wanted to be fed. Is this 'thinking' though? or is it like the beaver-building-dam algorithm?

I don't think it's like the algorithm thingy. The algorithm explanation makes sense for species' long-term habits (beavers who responded to the sound of running water by gathering sticks/mud were more successful, in evolutionary terms).

The beavers who happened to have this 'tic' were - unknowingly - doing exactly what they needed to do to survive better. This type of beaver therefore survives; and others who didn't happen to behave this way are no longer with us.

Same with bees who act a certain way to 'help' the hivemates find food... same with woodpeckers; those who happened to have the pecking tic survived to leave descendents. Totally without planning what they were doing.

This seems unrelated to pets who do tricks in hopes of a reward. They *know* what they are doing. It isn't an accident.

Eh?

seebs

I don't know - but it's the same way you can, almost always, spot smart or stupid people in a little bit.

Smart cats act as though you have an opinion of them. Stupid cats act as though you are a mysterious source of movement and possible danger or petting. Smart cats appear to generalize; stupid cats don't.

Vorkosigan

Cognition in birds? Cats detouring to get prey? Forget it. <a href="http://www.sigmaxi.org/amsci/articles/98articles/jackson.html" target="_blank">The jumping spider Portia</a> is the genius of the animal world. This article on it is absolutely fascinating.

• Portia often walks up the tree trunk toward A. appensa and then stops, looks around, goes off in a different direction and reappears above the web. If there is a vine over the web, for example, Portia seems to look at the web, the vine and the neighboring vegetation before moving away, perhaps going to where the web is completely out of view, crossing the vegetation and coming out on the vine above the web. From above the web, Portia drops on a silk line alongside but not touching the intended victim’s web. Then, when parallel with the spider in the web, Portia swings in to make a kill.
  
  In laboratory experiments with Michael Tarsitano (then Jackson’s graduate student), we found that Portia consistently takes detours to reach prey, and these detours often appear to be planned ahead of time. For example, if presented with a choice of two routes on artificial vegetation, only one of which leads to prey, Portia consistently takes the appropriate path even when this means initially going away from the prey and losing visual contact.

abe smith

To initial qy here; general article in this day's papers: that chimpanzees, over an observed period of a century or better now, evince the tool-use of big, wellshapen rocks to crack the heavy hard shells off very highcalorie {max nutritious] nuts; and that some of these rock-tools {which are left at a fixed site, for communal use} appear to have been in use for several generations of chimps. I won't tell it all; see today's GLOBE; & almost certainly today's TIMES. Should we send them FF's skull? Is there anything nutritious inside?

Marduk

"Another test shows birds a picture of a number of objects, and places different numbers of objects in front of several boxes. The box with the same number of objects in front of it as the picture has food and the others are empty. This test proved that ravens and parakeets can learn to count as high as 7."

Nature seems to dole out intelligence at random, compare a dumbass chicken to an almost humanlike African Grey Parrot. I saw a nature show on TV about Marine life, they were talking about how smart an Octopus was. Why? I wondered does an Octopus have to be any smarter than a jellyfish or a squid or whatever?

cricket

What about this --

is it "thinking", or just a common reaction to being in a compromised situation? --

I've had a couple cats who seemed self-conscious...

& to feign indifference, they would groom themselves immediately after an embarrassment.

&lt;anthropomorphism alert&gt; At least they *seemed* embarrassed.

Example: clumsy-ass cat falls from ledge. Immediately upon hitting the ground the cat, nonplussed, hurriedly sits up in grooming position and takes several licks at her coat... she's oh-so-cool and collected. It's just a pose though; she's not really in the mood to bathe herself. Takes off again a few seconds later.

It looks like she wants to appear unruffled.

[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: cricket ]</p>

Coragyps

My handsome fat yellow steer-kitty is far more intelligent than I: he sleeps about twenty hours a day while I have to go be a wage slave.

Marduk

"Example: clumsy-ass cat falls from ledge. Immediately upon hitting the ground the cat, nonplussed, hurriedly sits up in grooming position and takes several licks at her coat... she's oh-so-cool and collected. It's just a pose though; she's not really in the mood to bathe herself. Takes off again a few seconds later"

I meant to do that!


My dog is the same way, after chasing another critter out of the yard and also once when he fell out of bed, he's not happy just to bark or go about his business, he has to walk back and forth snorting, as if very indignant over the whole episode.