emotional

Dear all,

I have given up the hope that making-believe an afterlife would solve my problem of fear of death. I can only make myself believe so much.

I believe, on account of the cumulative evidence, that there is no life after death. If we say that humans have a soul, then we should also say that other animals, germs, viruses, trees and stones have a soul too. The notion of separation between humans and other animals, or between animal life and plant life, or between life and non-life, is an antiquated conceit that dates back to flat-earth, geocentric days.

Also, there is plenty of evidence that body and mind are the same. Neuroscience may still be in its infancy, but the connection between the brain and the self is already well-documented. As David Hume observed in the 18th century:

As for Near-Death Experiences, they are inconclusive evidence for life after death. Susan Blackmore made a plausible naturalistic explanation for those experiences. They can be reproduced by using drugs such as ketamine, and stopped by others such as naloxone, which strongly hints to their being a brain-dependent, bodily phenomenon.

Life after death belongs to theistic thinking. It belongs in a world created and ruled by gods, where mankind is at special interest of the universe, and prayer may be answered. Life after death does not belong in a world run by evolution, where mankind is subject to natural disasters with the same mercilessness as if mice were in his place.

Therefore, the problem of final death is not a problem at all - it's a given, an unchangeable given of the natural universe. There is no solving it.

There is only fear of death is to be solved. I'll be working on it. Maybe I should listen to the news a little less. Newspapers are a concentration of the sadness and evil of the world, and they should be avoided.

Rhea

This is quite thought provoking.

HelenM

Avoiding things that make you anxious (that you can avoid without causing yourself other problems) seems like a great idea to me!

Helen

Matt Camaro

I accept that there is no life after death, and I seek a cure for my abnormal fear of death. Any help available? [/B][/QUOTE]

Emotional, I'm not in the business of dispensing advice, but if you haven't checked out "The Work of Byron Katie" yet, you might find it helpful. She has a new book out entitled "Loving What Is". Check it out at Amazon if you're interested. The audio CD is very good because you can hear how she interacts with people and helps them understand their disturbing thoughts.

It's not religious at all.

-Matt

Opera Nut

Let me tell you what I think about Science, particularly Medical Science.

1) My thyroid gland died when I was 11 years old. I have taken natural thyroid supplement since then and I will have to take it the rest of my life. Otherwise I would go into a myxedema coma and die. That's one major reason I am alive.

2)I was in an emotionally abusive marriage for four years. The guy finally nagged me into a long term chronic illness. For five years I was in and out of the hospital with bacterial pneumonia. All my defenses were gone; I was drowning in my own pus-filled lungs. The bugs that were killing me were normal flora; non-pathogenic bacteria. My doctor rinsed my lungs out four times in five years. I easily could have died anytime in that period, and I would have certainly died had I not had my lungs vacuumed out. I would have drowned in pus. So that's four times I cheated death through a doctor's treatment. I was exxtremely ill for several years. How do I know I was really really near death???
I lost my SEX DRIVE for several YEARS!!! I was 33 to 38 years old at the time.

3)When I had my daughter in 1985, I knew I would have to have a C section. I am a very small person with a narrow ass. Both of us would have died, no question about it. She was a very large baby to me, 8 lbs, and pregnancy was a huge strain on my body. I had to quit working at 5 months because I was so big I could barely walk. I couldn't work because my ribs hurt too much when I sit up. I am five foot three and got to 187 lbs. I had serious knee pain and couldn't breathe or move. I lost 5 months before and 2 months after delivery, where I could not work. Most people do not realize how hazardous childbirth is in the best of conditions, and nowadays women don't have to die in child birth from infection (puerperal fever) or from a small pelvis.

Okay, so that's 3 reasons and six occasions in which I KNOW I would have died from illness or childbirth, plus my child would not be alive. I would not be able to reproduce without medical science.

All you people who think science is terrible, go ahead and pray even harder.

I have no evidence for the existence of god. That's why I have no faith. I would like to believe in some kind of existence afterwards, but I might be as if in a deep sleep -- unaware I do not exist, and therefore it doesn't bother me. Or maybe nothing is there.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
We want to go there to be eternally happy with God. We don't sit on chairs all eternity long doing nothing but singing. Heaven will be fun, enjoyable, fulfilling, and satisfying.

Please provide a quote from the bible to show that in heaven, activities other than the eternal praise of god occur.

God doesn't torture you, you torture youself.

Uh, no, I'm not a masochist. Therefore, if there is suffering in the afterlife, it will be your god inflicting it on me.

You just said in the above quote why would you ever want to be Heaven? You don't want to be Heaven, which means you choose Hell. There is no inbetween.

That's a false dichotomy. If life after death was a proven fact, and I had to choose what would happen to my 'soul' or whatever survived, I would choose nothingness. Nonexistence.

You live for God, or you die for Satan - take your pick.

Isn't it possible to die for God or to live for Satan? Seriously, though, since you've provided no evidence for either of these choices existing, they're quite meaningless.

QoS, God is omnipotent. Hell is an unquenchable fire, and it needs no fuel.

In other words, God just pumped or keeps pumping his own power into hell and that causes it to burn? So he's directly involved in torturing people.

I'm pretty sure God ressurects all bodies at the Great White Throne Judgement, however, Hell bound souls won't get perfect bodies, they may remain corrupted. I have no clue.

If you have no clue, why do you even make statements like that? Are they backed up by the bible or are they merely what you saw in your dreams?

Either way, you will feel pain and torment both physically and mentally, whether you have a body or not.

How does one feel physical pain without pain receptors? How does mentality survive without a brain to generate it?

Evil will haunt you for all eternity.

Fred Phelps will be there?

And you will be plagued by constant remindings that you rejected God's gift and put yourself there.

No, I rejected God's slavery and brainwashing, so, like the Mafia boss who makes you an offer you can't refuse, he decided to torture me for all eternity. Unfortunately for him, were the scenarios described by you accurate, I would prefer to suffer than to groven mindlessly before a tyrant.

Being Separated from God is the worst thing imaginable to most people,

What's the worst thing imaginable to the rest of the people? Public speaking, maybe?

Seriously, though, I'm separated from your god right now and I'm not doing so badly.

yet you like the idea and you don't think you belong in Hell?

I don't think anyone deserves to be tortured for all eternity.

Not even you.

never been there

Emotional, Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving....

openeyes

Magus--It's just a fantasy. Have fun spinning your dreams of a hereafter. Just don't be upset if we don't partake, even if it places a few crimps in your theory.

Debbie T

I think as we age death becomes less terrifying. I know at age 25 when I realized I wasn't immortal it was terrifying but I just put it out of my mind as much as I could. Now 25 years later I find death is not a terrifying prospect. I don't wish to die but it feels like when the time comes it will be all right.

I remember at one point in my life that I thought the possibility of me dying in close brush with death was real. I remember my brain switched gears. Everything slowed down and I felt this overwhelming calmness about me. There was no fear at the time as I watched this accident going on and thought I was in grave danger. I was not hurt but I marvelled at how my brain worked through those moments of time like time slowed down. It was fascinating to think about. It makes me think that death can be a peaceful process if we don't fear it.

I watched one person die and it was a peaceful process for them.

Captain Howdy

you should really get a grip. I forgive everyone else for their ignorance, but how can YOU forgive yourself? You know what I'm talking about. Ignorance is bliss. But it's too late for that. Besides, when you're dead, your're dead. I think you're wasting the one life you'll ever have worrying about what'll happen when it's over. Well it's not over 'till it's over. Live for yourself, not for some misquided alice in wonderland fairytale..