Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Radorth · 01-20-2003, 09:37 AM

Quote:

All those who fall away do so only because God has predestined them to Hell, and wants to use them as an example to those sheep that dare to not follow their Good shepherd. Perhaps there are other options, but they are certainly not worth discussing,

That's complete bull. Please don't make up quotes as it is patronizing and tells me you are not as interested in my POV as you proclaim.

I also clearly said that God does not save people and then lose them. My reasoning is quite different from those who believe in predestination of individuals.

Rad

THE_LEGENDARY_HQB · 01-20-2003, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Radorth:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come to think of it, I'll take 2 points, actually.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well OK, you deserve it for pointing out that I said "only." I should have said "With few exceptions."

Unfortunately you lost a point when you made such a stink about Daggah's intrusions so soon after your questioning me and my motives in dealing with Rad chasers."

Rad
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Za? Perhaps I missed that one, Rad. When did I ever:

1. Have a problem with Daggah's "intrusions"?

2. Bring up "Rad Chasers", or your response to them? What, exactly is a Rad Chaser "?

*Bad Elmer voice*. "Shhhhhh, be vewy vewy kwiet. I'm huntin' Wadorths! Huhhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh!

Seriously, Radorth, my O.P was only adressing your point. I never had any problems with Daggah, nor do I remember talking about "Rad Chasers".

*Bad Elmer voice again!* Kill the Wadorth, kill the Wadorth, kill the Wadorth, kill the Wadorth!

Criminy.

Respect,
HQB.

{P.S. You wascawy Wadorth!}

THE_LEGENDARY_HQB · 01-20-2003, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by Radorth:
"All those who fall away do so only because God has predestined them to Hell, and wants to use them as an example to those sheep that dare to not follow their Good shepherd. Perhaps there are other options, but they are certainly not worth discussing,"
-
"That's complete bull. Please don't make up quotes as it is patronizing and tells me you are not as interested in my POV as you proclaim.

I also clearly said that God does not save people and then lose them. My reasoning is quite different from those who believe in predestination of individuals."

Rad
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's called sarcasm, Radorth.
My point was not that you actually believed in predestination, but to imagine what you would say if you did, hence the *Radorth mode on* thing. Sarcasm, yes. Making up quotes, no.

I was channeling you, Radorth!
Bwahahahahaha!

Sorry for any misunderstanding though.
Criminy.
Stay Gold,
HQB

Buffman · 01-20-2003, 11:11 AM

Radorth: "It's funny how "rational thinking" ends where mind reading begins."

Prior to this Rad had offered an attempted Pascal quote:

"The heart has it's reasons the mind knows nothing of" I believe Pascal said.

The more accurate quote is, "The heart has its reasons which reason does not understand." ("Pens�es", 1670, #423)

Well, I can hardly contain myself waiting to hear what the "liver" thinks about all this. I already know what my "bowels and kidneys" think about it.

Pascal also said, "If we submit everything to reason, our religion will have nothing in it mysterious or supernatural. If we violate the principles of reason, our religion will be absurd and ridiculous." ("Pens�es", #173)

Pascal also said, "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." ("Pens�es", #813)

scombrid · 01-20-2003, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth
Oh heck no. I think they honestly believe they are no longer Christians. My comments about mind and heart prove that well enough.

"The heart has it's reasons the mind knows nothing of" I believe Pascal said.

To those less inclined to see witches and read minds, there are other options to your narrow assertions. They can honestly believe they were Christians as well. It's not about them lying at all.

Rad

Well then, like I also said but you apparently missed.

Quote:

Further, this sort of assertion renders knowing whether someone, or ourselves for that matter, is an atheist or believer impossible

You don't even know whether or not you're a true christian then. Your head might be fooling your heart or your heart lying to your head since the "heart has it's reasons that the mind knows nothing of(sic)" or your heart might not be lying but your mind might be misinterpreting your heart or perhaps Satan is what changed your heart but your mind can't tell the difference.

I guess my point in that little run-on is that you're offering no real evidence of this supposed "change" or any means of detecting said "change". Your assertions regarding the validity of a persons claimed belief are pointless in that light.

BTW: You are aware of the respective functions of the brain and heart within the vertebrate body, yes? Last I checked, my heart doesn't know too much.

Radorth · 01-20-2003, 03:37 PM

Quote:

I guess my point in that little run-on is that you're offering no real evidence of this supposed "change" or any means of detecting said "change".

If I get enough information, I can make a good guess IMO. I could be wong. I was also bringing up a subject I like to discuss, which hardly justified the response it got.

Quote:

You are aware of the respective functions of the brain and heart within the vertebrate body, yes? Last I checked, my heart doesn't know too much.

Heh. Well, you'll find out. People fall in love with opposites, in love with people they know are wrong, and hate them later, and even "brainy" people have no idea why. People are healed through prayer friend. Emotions effect health. Therapists like M.Scott Peck have come to believe "religion" in some form is essential to mental health and well-being, and that "grace" has extraordinary healing power. These are facts. Read "The Road Less Traveled" for further info. Also read about Peck's conversion in that and his sequel if you get a chance.

Rad

HelenM · 01-20-2003, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth
"grace" has extraordinary healing power.

Are you referring to God's grace in particular?

Humans certain have the ability to show grace to one another, based on my experience and observation.

Helen

Radorth · 01-20-2003, 04:52 PM

Well OK, but they have to get it from somewhere. If you think it comes from thin air, Helen, we can disagree.

Sometimes I wonder why you are a Christian at all, I must admit. Perhaps you can tell us sometime or point to a thread where you tell us. I keep hearing this "I'm OK, your OK" philosophy from you, which I can't find in the Bible, and which may not be what you intend.

Rad

beyelzu · 01-20-2003, 05:06 PM

just because helen doesnt make horrible arguments and change what she is saying all the time and then denies that she changed her assertion doesnt make her less of a christian than you rad

oth, her idea about live and let live or agree to disagree are very modern ideas. so if someone is stuck in a 1st century frame of mind, i am sure that they wouldnt understand it.

rad, if grace is from god, then is anger hatred and jealousy. and murder and whatnot?

if all good is from god then so is all evil. please keep that in mind.

beyelzu · 01-20-2003, 05:13 PM

thanks rad you have really depressed me, now i have to contend with an xian who thinks that i am deluding myself about my atheism thats even more patronizing than the ones who say i will find god someday.

01-20-2003, 09:47 AM	#112
THE_LEGENDARY_HQB Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Tewksbury, Mass., USA Posts: 170	Spear & Magic Helmet! Let me give you a sample! Originally posted by Radorth: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Come to think of it, I'll take 2 points, actually. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Well OK, you deserve it for pointing out that I said "only." I should have said "With few exceptions." Unfortunately you lost a point when you made such a stink about Daggah's intrusions so soon after your questioning me and my motives in dealing with Rad chasers." Rad ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Za? Perhaps I missed that one, Rad. When did I ever: 1. Have a problem with Daggah's "intrusions"? 2. Bring up "Rad Chasers", or your response to them? What, exactly is a Rad Chaser "? Bad Elmer voice. "Shhhhhh, be vewy vewy kwiet. I'm huntin' Wadorths! Huhhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh! Seriously, Radorth, my O.P was only adressing your point. I never had any problems with Daggah, nor do I remember talking about "Rad Chasers". Bad Elmer voice again! Kill the Wadorth, kill the Wadorth, kill the Wadorth, kill the Wadorth! Criminy. Respect, HQB. {P.S. You wascawy Wadorth!}

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01-20-2003, 09:55 AM	#113
THE_LEGENDARY_HQB Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Tewksbury, Mass., USA Posts: 170	Originally posted by Radorth: "All those who fall away do so only because God has predestined them to Hell, and wants to use them as an example to those sheep that dare to not follow their Good shepherd. Perhaps there are other options, but they are certainly not worth discussing," - "That's complete bull. Please don't make up quotes as it is patronizing and tells me you are not as interested in my POV as you proclaim. I also clearly said that God does not save people and then lose them. My reasoning is quite different from those who believe in predestination of individuals." Rad ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It's called sarcasm, Radorth. My point was not that you actually believed in predestination, but to imagine what you would say if you did, hence the Radorth mode on thing. Sarcasm, yes. Making up quotes, no. I was channeling you, Radorth! Bwahahahahaha! Sorry for any misunderstanding though. Criminy. Stay Gold, HQB

01-20-2003, 11:11 AM	#114
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	Radorth: "It's funny how "rational thinking" ends where mind reading begins." Prior to this Rad had offered an attempted Pascal quote: "The heart has it's reasons the mind knows nothing of" I believe Pascal said. The more accurate quote is, "The heart has its reasons which reason does not understand." ("Pens�es", 1670, #423) Well, I can hardly contain myself waiting to hear what the "liver" thinks about all this. I already know what my "bowels and kidneys" think about it. Pascal also said, "If we submit everything to reason, our religion will have nothing in it mysterious or supernatural. If we violate the principles of reason, our religion will be absurd and ridiculous." ("Pens�es", #173) Pascal also said, "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." ("Pens�es", #813)

01-20-2003, 04:52 PM	#118
Radorth Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,872	Well OK, but they have to get it from somewhere. If you think it comes from thin air, Helen, we can disagree. Sometimes I wonder why you are a Christian at all, I must admit. Perhaps you can tell us sometime or point to a thread where you tell us. I keep hearing this "I'm OK, your OK" philosophy from you, which I can't find in the Bible, and which may not be what you intend. Rad

01-20-2003, 05:06 PM	#119
beyelzu Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the peach state ga I am a metaphysical naturalist Posts: 2,869	just because helen doesnt make horrible arguments and change what she is saying all the time and then denies that she changed her assertion doesnt make her less of a christian than you rad oth, her idea about live and let live or agree to disagree are very modern ideas. so if someone is stuck in a 1st century frame of mind, i am sure that they wouldnt understand it. rad, if grace is from god, then is anger hatred and jealousy. and murder and whatnot? if all good is from god then so is all evil. please keep that in mind.

01-20-2003, 05:13 PM	#120
beyelzu Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the peach state ga I am a metaphysical naturalist Posts: 2,869	thanks rad you have really depressed me, now i have to contend with an xian who thinks that i am deluding myself about my atheism thats even more patronizing than the ones who say i will find god someday.

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