Shinobi

"God is love". That one gets dropped often by theists. I challenged a theist friend of mine (who otherwise is a pretty intelligent guy) to a debate by email once and he dropped it. As to what it means I don't know. Why people say it is a little easier to understand. It's an appeal to emotion. To a rationalist it's not convincing at all but to other people that are easily swayed by emotional appeals it's quite convincing. People who use it exepect you to go all goey inside becuase they mentioned the word "love". When my friend said that I responded by listing the chemicals that are related to the love emotion and saying that is what love really is.

Back to the original question, I think the attrocities depicted in the bible that are condoned or activly commited by god contradict the notion that "god is love" (by whatever meaning you want to ascribe to the statement.) I'd like to read a theists view on the matter, but I would predict a pretty low level of rationality in it.

7thangel

Read 1 Corinthians 13, and you'll see that there is really a different meaning of love. And also of Romans 13:8-10. Then John 3:16. And then conclude with Ephesians 2:7-10.

My point, is that love has something to do with "grace." Unlike us, humans, who demands something in return, or feel the obligation to do so, the love of God is not so. God bestowed upon us his love not because of obligation, or sort of debt, but of his own goodness. If we just can understand how God bestowed upon us love through grace, then we have a difinite meaning of God's love. Unfortunately, most Christians, because of their doctrines of the neccessity of work, they fail to show that the love of God is actually of grace.

DBrant

Told you.

Infinity Lover

God is love?

For those who've spoken that phrase and believe it to be true (my girlfriend Amie, who I think the world of, included), no disrespect ment with the following but...

God IS love; not God is the embodiment of love, or God loves... no; God IS love...

...that's just bad grammar isn't it?

Well, perhaps the word "just", as in "merely" doesn't quite apply. Taking a word that's either a verb or a noun, to use it like an adjective (which it isn't)... that kinda streches the meaning of the word out, in an elusive poetic way that people would find fitting for God, because it has a certain ring to it; who knows?

All I know, is that I hope that those who do believe God to 'be' love aren't biblical litterists; otherwise they'd end up having some pretty fucked up ideas about love if you ask me.

fides

I think this question is related to the larger question of "why does evil exist?"

Here is the standard answer from Catholicism...

Whether God exists?

Objection 1. It seems that God does not exist; because if one of two contraries be infinite, the other would be altogether destroyed. But the word "God" means that He is infinite goodness. If, therefore, God existed, there would be no evil discoverable; but there is evil in the world. Therefore God does not exist.

Reply to Objection 1. As Augustine says (Enchiridion xi): "Since God is the highest good, He would not allow any evil to exist in His works, unless His omnipotence and goodness were such as to bring good even out of evil." This is part of the infinite goodness of God, that He should allow evil to exist, and out of it produce good.

7thangel

Did you even try to understand?

GrandDesigner

Yes. God is Love.

Grand ol' Designer

Wyz_sub10

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 7thangel
My point, is that love has something to do with "grace."

Another concept for which I have yet to hear a good definition. (not aimed at you, just a general comment)

God demands nothing of us in return? To begin with, you are making quite a jump here. Many have objected that they do not see the love of god (based on biblical tales and teachings). Yet you make the assertion that the love is there, and then move on to grace. I think the love of god needs to be demonstrated and defined before moving on to grace.

This is circular - if we can understand god's love, we can understand god's love. Adding the concept of grace does not resolve problems with understanding god's love. It does not resolve the conflict between "unconditional love" and "eternal damnation", for instance.

You are failing to show it, as well. You are simply asserting that it is so.

iversong

A Simple biblical analogy. Is the suffering of a mother before birth evil or wrong? No it is not. The suffering of the mother is nothing compared to the joy she feels once the baby is born. The bible describes it the same with us. Paul says in Romans 8:18 - I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.”

And it is going to get worse:

Mark 13:8 - For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places, there will be famines; this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.

In the end, it is the promise that we (those who are apprehended by the gospel) will be saved. This will make our current suffering meaningless.

So we are going to suffer. We are going to die. Bad things will happen. But once we die, our pain will not be comparable to the glory that awaits those who trusted in the Gospel.

God would not be a just God if He didn’t have a judgment for those people who committed evil acts. If God didn’t have judgment, that would be tantamount to Mother Teresa and Adolph Hitler having no distinction in the eyes of a “perfect” God. Punishment comes from a just God. Without retribution for those who were victimized, God would be unjust.

Bill Snedden

How do you know that? Perhaps God's definition of "just" is as different from ours as our definition of "love" apparently is from his...

Regards,

Bill Snedden