Joel

I was not aware that our constitution states the Supreme Court will select the President of the United States after a bunch of fishy election practices and problems.

I'm not sure I agree with the rest of that statement either. Open rebellion isn't necessarily a patriotic act even when the government is in the wrong. There are further moral issues involved there than just standing up to the government. Petitioning the court is a waste of time since he was placed in that office by the Supreme Court. They have already made their decision on the matter and there isn't a higher court in the land to appeal to.

As to actions in between, I think speaking out in public and pointing out the failings of our leaders is certainly a viable option. Saying we shouldn't speak out against our president specifically is ridiculous. The ability, intelligence and competence of any public office-holder are very important issues when the next election comes around. We should always be able to speak our minds about any person who has chosen to enter the politicial arena.

Majestyk

I gave a range of options listing the least to most drastic. I have already conceded the �criticism�, by itself, is too broad a term for this discussion.

And I would characterize their positions as rejecting the premise of a democratic republic. Elected officials are charged with representing the interests of all of their constituents not just, those that voted for them or paid for their political campaign. In turn we as citizens agree to accept those selected by the electorate as our representatives.

Nope. There is no law or provision that would allow a law for such purposes. I never claimed there was and have stated my opposition to any such law.

No one said patriotism was easy. Sometimes it may be extremely difficult to act in what you believe to be a patriotic manner. For example, previous to our country being attacked, I was very critical of this administration�s politics. I am still critical of the �Patriot Act�. However, since that time I voluntarily confine my speech to the policies. Of course, I always attempt to be reasonable and avoid conjecture in my discourse. During a time when our country is being attacked then, we as patriotic citizens should set aside our political differences. Or maybe �political affiliations� would be a better term.

Much like the rules of this forum, you should criticize the policies and not the people. So long as that criticism is reasonable, accurate, I have no problem with it.

These are just my opinions.

Gurdur

ROFLMAO !

Two things:

1) Your country is not under attack; it has in fact attacked another country which had not attacked the USA

2) "I see no more political parties; I see only loyal Germans"
-- Kaiser Wilhelm II upon the outbreak of WW 1.

Of course, Kaiser Wilhelm is such a good role-model for the ethics of patriotism, isn't he ?


If you prefer, I can diq up some more quotes refering to the "need" to suppress criticism when all are ordered to be patriotic......
hmmm, some good ones from 1938/39 ?

Hubble head

There is something about patriotism (or some of the patriotism we have seen more of lately) that concerns me.

The word itself is accomplished by having many qualities. Faith and trust add in. Pride is in there along with nationalism. Finish it off with a little power, prejudice, and jingoism and you about have it summed up. But I see the most honorable and significant ingredients to patriotism as history and sacrifice.

But now many are counting on our history to validate patriotism and our sacrifices to perpetuate it.

To be so patriotic apathy arises for checks and balances is not a good thing. People who let their nation fly off its rails can face severe consequences too - just ask inhabitants of Dresden 1944, Hiroshima 1945, or Baghdad '03. The USA is not off its rails yet but I think it's getting dangerously close. The next few years are crucial to how this will be remembered. I hope it allows patriotism to flourish further but we can't be so sure yet.

That being said, what would happen if the world was needed to rescue us (yes, the U.S.) from tyrannical freedom oppressing warlords?
Years of sanctions followed by a multi-national coalition blitzkrieg? How would we react to little 5 and 6 year old girls named Rebecca or Jenny being "collateral damage" in Washington D.C. or around our military bases?

I don't think we know yet but would we at least remember what got us there?

Majestyk

�The Constitution of the United States of America, Article III, Section 2. The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority; to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls; to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction; to controversies to which the United States shall be a party; to controversies between two or more States, between a State and citizens of another State, ��

Was this place around in 2k? If, it was it must�ve been a fun time. This is the thing I�m talking about. This is the kind of thing you should either be setting aside or taking action on. If, you�re going to do something, make it more than just sniping off partisan jibes. It�s your choice. It�s just not what I call being patriotic, especially at this time.

�The Declaration of Independence. �That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive to these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, ��

Then the point is settled, isn�t it? Now if, you believe that the SCOTUS is in breach of faith then, you either accept it or seek to rectify it. In the meantime he is still the president.

He is also not the sole representative within the government. There are two houses of Congress which also represent the will of the republic.

During an armed conflict you should confine your comments to their policies unless, you intend to do more than just talk.

I�m no fan of derogatory political campaigns to begin with. Can it be that difficult to keep to the issues or promote the opponent�s qualities? Partisanship! Any negatives of patriotism pale in comparison.

I never claimed that you shouldn�t be able to say anything. I�m saying that you can�t pick your nose in a restaurant and be surprised when people think you have no class.

Majestyk

Yeah, I know the feeling.

I get it every know and then when I see people exercising the same brain functions that produce racism, try to engage in social commentary.

Majestyk

Yeah. War is scary shit. Once you let the dog off the leash, you may have trouble keeping it in the yard. Which is why I think we should exercise a little more restraint in our normally rancorous exercise of free speech.