David Conklin

"quite clear" was a poor choice of words on my part (counters my own posts ab't metaphors!). At the time I wrote that I was thinking ab't Col. 2:16-17 and how those two verses are treated by translations and commentators.

As an example per this thread:

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

David Stern suggests that the word "generation" here is a metaphor for "people" (not specific individuals). And the lexicon that comes with BibleWorks confirms that this is possible.

David Conklin

Far more than you are prepared or willing to concede.

I was jesting your nit-picking. Perhaps now you'll can it.

R.J.

David Conklin -- posted December 08, 2002 12:25 PM
----------------------------------------------
Originally posted by R.J.:
DAVID CONKLIN, do you agree or disagree with John Noe's reply to Ted Noel??

From John Noe Sat Nov 30 14:59:51 2002
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:59:51 -0500
From: "John Noe" <jnoe@prophecyrefi.org>
To: "susan" <susan172992@yahoo.com>
CC: [Many members of SDANET]
Subject: Re: TED NOEL!!
From Ted Noel Sat Nov 30 14:16:07 2002
From: "Ted Noel" <tednoel@cfl.rr.com>
To: "susan" <susan172992@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DAVID CONKLIN!!
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:16:07 -0500
Susan,
Thanks for the heads-up. However, I do not plan to address the Internet Infidels forum, since the purpose of such forums is to impress the members with their erudition and the stupidity of Christians. No argument I present is likely to have any effect. The posts made are quite clear evidence of this. I will continue to study scripture to find ways to deal with difficult passages. And the Infidels will always be able to throw stones. The only effective rebuttal will come when Christ returns and they call for the rocks to fall on them.
Ted Noel

"John Noe" <jnoe@prophecyrefi.org> wrote:
Ted,
Come on., Ted. What a cop-out!
JN
----------------------------------------------
David Conklin wrote:
No, you seem to be exhibit A for Noel's argument.
----------------------------------------------
Why do you say that??
==============================================
In addition to being afraid to share his faith in this forum, Ted Noel, the man who inspired this thread, is afraid to realisticly share his faith in his own forum!!
This is the URL link to Ted's initial post in the SDANET forum:
&lt; <a href="http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2002/Nov32002/0093.html" target="_blank">http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2002/Nov32002/0093.html</a> &gt;
This is the URL link to a reply that was posted in the SDANET forum that Ted Noel, & everybody else including DAVID CONKLIN, has been afraid to answer:
&lt; <a href="http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2002/Dec12002/0002.html" target="_blank">http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2002/Dec12002/0002.html</a> &gt;
[SDANET home links: &lt; <a href="http://www.sdanet.org" target="_blank">http://www.sdanet.org</a> &gt;
&lt; <a href="http://www.sdanet.org/archive/archive.html" target="_blank">http://www.sdanet.org/archive/archive.html</a> &gt;
&lt; <a href="http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2002/archive2002.html" target="_blank">http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2002/archive2002.html</a> &gt;
&lt; <a href="http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2002/Dec12002/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2002/Dec12002/index.html</a> &gt;]

R.J.

Here's another reply from:
&lt; <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Errors_In_The_Christian_Bible" target="_blank">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Errors_In_The_Christian_Bible</a> &gt;
&lt; <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Errors_In_The_Christian_Bible/message/1238" target="_blank">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Errors_In_The_Christian_Bible/message/1238</a> &gt;

R.J.

DAVID CONKLIN, notice that your S.D.A. "brother", James North, Jr., seems to agree with a skeptic:

&lt; <a href="http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2002/Dec12002/0002.html" target="_blank">http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2002/Dec12002/0002.html</a> &gt;

&lt; <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Errors_In_The_Christian_Bible/message/1238" target="_blank">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Errors_In_The_Christian_Bible/message/1238</a> &gt;

David Conklin

Only on a detail. Try paying attention, Exhibit A.

R.J.

R.J. -- posted December 08, 2002 03:53 PM

DAVID CONKLIN, notice that your S.D.A. "brother", James North, Jr., seems to agree with a skeptic:

&lt; <a href="http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2002/Dec12002/0002.html" target="_blank">http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2002/Dec12002/0002.html</a> &gt;

&lt; <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Errors_In_The_Christian_Bible/message/1238" target="_blank">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Errors_In_The_Christian_Bible/message/1238</a> &gt;
----------------------------------------------
David Conklin -- posted December 08, 2002 04:27 PM

Only on a detail. Try paying attention, Exhibit A.
----------------------------------------------
R.J. asks:
Where do they disagree??

[ December 08, 2002: Message edited by: R.J. ]</p>

CX

When I post with "BC&A Moderator" after my name I am stepping out of being a regular poster and putting on my "mod" hat. As such my comments aren't really open to discussion in this forum. You are welcome to complain in the Bugs & Complaints forum if you think my actions are heavy handed or unjustified. My primary responsibility is to try and keep discussions here on topic and with a minimum of rancor and vitriol. Personal attacks serve no purpose in discussions here and are to be avoided.

This is an ad hom pure and simple and has no relevance to this discussion. You're subsequent statement would have been more than sufficient to make your point.

That is your opinion to which you are entitled, but it is not appropriate to the discussion at hand. Period. A poster's arguments stand and fall on their own merits not on the personality or shortcomings of the poster. I don't care if a convicted murderer is posting arguments from death row in this forum. The fact that he is a convicted murderer (even one that kicks puppies) is totally irrelevant to strength or weakness of his arguments.

In future please address concerns such as those above to moderators via a private message or in the Bugs & Complaints forum to avoid using up thread space on off topic material. I post this here only in any case anyone else is following along who is similarly confused.

CX - BC&A Moderator

NOGO

David:
Only when the Greek is quite clear.

NOGO:
Let me see. What you are saying here is that Matthew 24 is wrongly translated by most Christian bibles despite the fact that the Greek version is quite clear.
So all these scholarly Christian translators deliberately mislead their flocks and give atheists ammunition against the only true faith.


David:
"quite clear" was a poor choice of words on my part (counters my own posts ab't metaphors!). At the time I wrote that I was thinking ab't Col. 2:16-17 and how those two verses are treated by translations and commentators.

As an example per this thread:

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

David Stern suggests that the word "generation" here is a metaphor for "people" (not specific individuals). And the lexicon that comes with BibleWorks confirms that this is possible.


NOGO:
Wow! you have gone from quite clear to "suggests" and "possible". That pretty much settles it in my book.

If that is all you have then I can assume that Matthew 24 is correctly translated and interpreted by most bibles that we have access to.

Now about "generation"
I will not start a new thread on this subject because so much has already been said about it and it is no point repeating it here.

I will only point out that [1] the word "generation" is used in many places in the Gospel of Matthew and its meaning is quite clear and I don't see any reasons to make it different in Matthew 24. [2] The fact that early Christians expected Jesus' return within their lifetime is also clear from many verses throughtout the NT. Given that the translation found in most Bibles is on very solid ground.

[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: NOGO ]</p>

R.J.

&lt; <a href="http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2002/Dec12002/0002.html" target="_blank">http://www.sdanet.org/archive/2002/Dec12002/0002.html</a> &gt;

Please stop cross-posting. Reproducing, pretty much in toto a post from another forum is not appropriate here. Feel free to contribute your own thoughts to the discussion here but refrain from wholesale, prolix cut&paste posting, crossposting, or posting only links. You've been warned several times. Failure to adhere to this request will result in further action.

Thanks,

CX - BC&A Moderator

[Original post edited by CX]

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: CX ]</p>