Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lpetrich · 03-17-2003, 01:20 AM

I think it strange the sort of heroes that Radorth has, because many of them are in some way heretical from his viewpoint.

John Locke (political theorist and philosopher, 1632-1704) had recognized religious revelation as a source of knowledge, along with reason and sense-experience, but he was relatively liberal, he disliked abstruse theological speculation, and he thought that the government should not get involved with religion very much.

He criticized the doctrine of the Divine Right of Kings, and he developed the "social contract" theory of government, the one mentioned in the US Constitution. The Bible, however, takes the opposite side of him on both issues.

And he distrusted "enthusiasm", by which he meant such things as taking such experiences as awakening in the middle of the night and babbling and concluding that they were inspired by the Holy Ghost.

As Radorth has done.

Sir Francis Bacon (judge and scientist, 1561-1626) professed belief in the Church; as Bertrand Russell had pointed out, he was not one to quarrel with the government on the subject of religion.

Sir Isaac Newton (scientist, 1642 - 1727) was serious enough about theological matters to become convinced that the Trinity was an unjustified doctrine. But he had to be a member of the Church of England, Trinity and all, in order to advance his career. So he kept his beliefs secret, and he hardly ever attended church services.

He was also preoccupied with interpreting the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation; a monumental folly if there ever was one.

All three gentlemen lived in a place and time where professing belief in the official Church was a necessity for having a successful career; it was like being a Muslim in Saudi Arabia.

Also, of our Founding Fathers, George Washington was only a nominal Anglican, and Thomas Jefferson could be called a Unitarian.

Radorth would get a heart attack if he ever read the "Jefferson Bible" -- he'd think that TJ had removed the best parts of the Gospels.

HelenM · 03-17-2003, 04:43 AM

There's also M Scott Peck whose Christianity and whose view of Jesus is not exactly "mainstream". Here's a quote from "Further Along The Road Less Traveled":

Quote:

I don't want to imply that the Gospels are totally accurate. Some things obviously seem to have been added. Others seem to me to be obviously missing. Jesus' sense of humor, for instance, and His sexuality. The latter may have been left out on purpose because Jesus' sexuality seems to me rather ambiguous. He appears to have been very fond of Mary Magdalene, who might have been a prostitute, and He is frequently pictured in an intimate pose with the Apostle John, who is referred to as "the one whom Jesus loved." I believe that Jesus was an androgynous figure; that is, not without sex or unisexed, but whole. "

No offense, Rad, but really, Peck is quite 'out there' in some of his Christian beliefs, wouldn't you say?

Helen

never been there · 03-17-2003, 06:21 PM

Sorry, I can't help myself. I saw the subject Radorth's Heroes and all I could think of was:

I know nuffink! Nuffink!

wade-w · 03-17-2003, 06:31 PM

This thread seems to have little to do with religion. Off to Elsewhere.

Vorkosigan · 03-17-2003, 09:48 PM

There's been some speculation that Newton was gay as well.

winstonjen · 03-17-2003, 11:26 PM

Didn't Radorth also extol the great virtues of Zen? Hardly sounds Xian to me.

christ-on-a-stick · 03-18-2003, 11:23 AM

"Read some Zen and get back to me". LMAO every time....

03-19-2003, 11:12 AM

The funny thing about Newton is that he was at Trinity College, Cambridge.

03-17-2003, 01:20 AM	#1
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Radorth's Heroes I think it strange the sort of heroes that Radorth has, because many of them are in some way heretical from his viewpoint. John Locke (political theorist and philosopher, 1632-1704) had recognized religious revelation as a source of knowledge, along with reason and sense-experience, but he was relatively liberal, he disliked abstruse theological speculation, and he thought that the government should not get involved with religion very much. He criticized the doctrine of the Divine Right of Kings, and he developed the "social contract" theory of government, the one mentioned in the US Constitution. The Bible, however, takes the opposite side of him on both issues. And he distrusted "enthusiasm", by which he meant such things as taking such experiences as awakening in the middle of the night and babbling and concluding that they were inspired by the Holy Ghost. As Radorth has done. Sir Francis Bacon (judge and scientist, 1561-1626) professed belief in the Church; as Bertrand Russell had pointed out, he was not one to quarrel with the government on the subject of religion. Sir Isaac Newton (scientist, 1642 - 1727) was serious enough about theological matters to become convinced that the Trinity was an unjustified doctrine. But he had to be a member of the Church of England, Trinity and all, in order to advance his career. So he kept his beliefs secret, and he hardly ever attended church services. He was also preoccupied with interpreting the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation; a monumental folly if there ever was one. All three gentlemen lived in a place and time where professing belief in the official Church was a necessity for having a successful career; it was like being a Muslim in Saudi Arabia. Also, of our Founding Fathers, George Washington was only a nominal Anglican, and Thomas Jefferson could be called a Unitarian. Radorth would get a heart attack if he ever read the "Jefferson Bible" -- he'd think that TJ had removed the best parts of the Gospels.

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03-17-2003, 06:21 PM	#3
never been there Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 2,144	Sorry, I can't help myself. I saw the subject Radorth's Heroes and all I could think of was: I know nuffink! Nuffink!

03-17-2003, 06:31 PM	#4
wade-w Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Silver City, New Mexico Posts: 1,872	This thread seems to have little to do with religion. Off to Elsewhere.

03-17-2003, 09:48 PM	#5
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	There's been some speculation that Newton was gay as well.

03-17-2003, 11:26 PM	#6
winstonjen Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,425	Didn't Radorth also extol the great virtues of Zen? Hardly sounds Xian to me.

03-18-2003, 11:23 AM	#7
christ-on-a-stick Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Durango, Colorado Posts: 7,116	"Read some Zen and get back to me". LMAO every time....

03-19-2003, 11:12 AM	#8
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	The funny thing about Newton is that he was at Trinity College, Cambridge.

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