Philosoft

Here, again, is an indication that God values a state-of-affairs more than any particular individual. Given that there are multiple ways for an omnipotent being to have his creations learn things, the one that explicitly devalues the individual does not seem the best or most moral.

Wyz_sub10

I suppose if god is the cause of those hard times, then helping us pull through doesn't acutally mean much does it?

It's like banging your head against a wall because it feels good when you stop.

Even as a Christian, I always felt uncomfortable about the story of Job. Not because of what it taught me about myself, but because if what it taught me about god.

diana

Hi, Magus.

Since this is the EoG forum, let's focus on what the story of Job tells us about God's attributes. Several of the posters already mentioned this and asked questions, but I see you have ignored them. So I will repeat: Is God omniscient?

The answer expected here is a either "yes" or "no." Once you've answered, an explanation and support for your choice is welcome.

Thank you for your understanding.

d

keyser_soze

A most excellent and well sealed box. My hat's off to you Diana. Well done.:notworthy Checkmate in 3, but methinks white will decide to feign disinterest or decide to play checkers instead...But, really, a nice move!

AlanWald

The Christian God (the only one I'm really educated in) isn't all knowing. He can't be. For an example, He can't know exactly when we will lose faith in Him, because we could lose faith at any time. So He can't be all knowing.

keyser_soze

You forget, he molds us in the shape that he wills. You need to read more. After all, all courses are already decided, according to the OT anyway. You know, if christians just dumped the OT, we would be hard pressed to find as much amusing stuff.

Pyrrho

To reject the Old Testament, to be consistent, one would have to reject the New Testament as well. Consider the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:

Also, all that talk about fulfilling prophecy would be just so much nonsense without some sort of prophesy to which one was referring. So there is no hope of getting rid of the Old Testament while hanging onto the New Testament. (Rather interestingly, one could keep the Old Testament and reject the New Testament.)

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

*notes that the most pain and suffering occurs in areas where there is not a strong belief in the Judeo-Christian God.*
Given that there is lots of suffering, we obviously cannot.
We have a winner! Thanks for making my argument for me.
Gee, how swell. To see how much someone loves you, you allow them to be tortured quite horrifically and then see if they're still loyal to you. How nice.
Then why allow it? Wait, you say it in just a second:
What a sick fucker you are worshipping. Tormenting people for your GOLRY. A being of INFINITE POWER NEEDS MORE FUCKING GLORY. You worship no being of justice. You worship no merciful being. You worship a sadistic bastard who cares NOTHING for anyone other than his own damn self and how big his dick is.

Congratulations, you're a sycophant.

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

My wager on his answer (heck, I may be giving him a good one, in thanks for his good argument against a good God):
Yes. However, God does this for US to see our decision--just as in the Matrix Reloaded, you have already made the choice--you have to understand it. He acts to help you understand.

Not that this makes him any BETTER, since he tortures people for his own glory, but...

Magus55

Since you apparently think you know more than God, and claim there are better, or more appropriate ways God could have done it - enlighten us - what would you have done?