Clutch

Several people comment: This preacher doesn't know what he's talking about.

Magus replies to them: This preacher doesn't know what he's talking about.

Blindsided by a brilliantly unorthodox rebuttal!

Fred

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mark9950
[B]I received this reply from a minister from a church about the

"The fact that the world is referred to as flat in the writing does NOT preclude the fact that God wrote it."

I would think God, being the designer, would know if it was flat or circular. Why does the Bible not accurately relect his work ?


"It is an extremely MINOR point and HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION."

Surely it must if we are left to judge for ourselves what belief we should follow. If we find something within the pages that lacks credibility we are within our rights to reject it as not being reliable. Surely with the question of eternal damnation hanging over our heads, God would want to give of the correct information.


"The Bible is NOT a book that covers EVERY subject of God."

Why would he hold back important information human beings need ?

"It is a book about personal Salvation."

How can it be about salvation when it is unable to demonstrate what it is saving us from ?


"God inspired men to write this book over centuries and even though He was inspiring them, He communicated to them in THEIR terms, just as Jesus gave parables in terms those people understood. "

This statement must be rejected out of hand due to it not having any relation to facts or evidence and is pure speculation.
I will also add the "Why ?" in relation to parrables.

"Why didn't Jesus use airplanes, super highways, computers and the Internet in His parables?"

They were not yet invented.


"Afterall, the Bible is something I am using now in this time period."

Why use an out dated instruction manual ? I just re read Sophocles, what is the difference.


"Why don't we see all of the modern technologies mentioned in the Bible? Clearly God could see they were coming. "

This reasoning is flawed and is attempting to show that lack of evidence, is in fact, evidence ?


"Better yet, why didn't He inspire a new and updated Bible for each generation; one for 500 AD, one for 1600 AD, one for the 1800s, the 1900s and one for last week? This way all the references to customs, objects and such would be up to date. "

Very good idea. Why didn't he ?


"Better yet, why doesn't He just assign an angel to each person on earth who does nothing but provide the truth of God on a daily basis? The angel could do miracles everyday to help the person believe and answer all his or her questions, which would be, no doubt endless. "

The questions would end once proof was established.


"Clearly an all-powerful God could have done it that way. Better yet, why not just by-pass all this human existance and take us straight to the Kingdom? Why all the pretense of going through a human life? He must have His reasons."

Why indeed ? Another question is why would he create beings to live with him in Heaven after a certain period of time ? If he needed company he should simply have had them delivered directly to him.
If this life is a test, it must mean that he is unsure of his creation. He must not have done a very good job. We expect higher standards from our professionals here on Earth.

"CLEARLY HE DOES!! He is attempting to build rightous character in those He has called prior to the return of Jesus Christ. "

He is trying to build righteous character ? This proves that he did not complete his job.

"Everyone will have this opportunity at the Salvation Process."

One must first demonstrate that we are in danger by providing proof.


"They will know all truth. "

This case would be better stated if it was backed by proof.
Again we see the most abused word in the English language, "truth".


"Most will get it directly from Christ and other spirit beings after His return and into the Second Resurrection period."

This statement need supportive evidence if we are to take it seriously.
Who are these other spirit beings ? Perhaps Artemis and Zeus ?


"The Bible is the handbook to that Salvation Process and all the elements to Salvation are clearly laid out."

What about the parrables mentioned earlier ?


"Your stated argument is extremely minor and has no impact on the Salvation elements of the Bible."

His stated argument is extremely poor and in no way proves anything he said is true.

"If we are going to void the Bible on such a minor point, then we can void it on many, many such points."

True.


"The major question here is WHY DO YOU WANT TO VOID THE BIBLE?"

The question is, why does he accept it as true when he knows it is not accurate ? He clearly states above that it is not 100 % accurate.


"If the Bible is NOT the true Word of God in your estimation, what is?"

This assumes that there would be a "TRUE WORD OF GOD" in the first place.


"Maybe your whole point is that there is no God."

I believe the point was, why believe in God at all when there is no evidence ?

The only thing he got right was his name. What a joke.
And they call it "truth" ??

Infidelettante

quote: Chris Cumming
God inspired men to write this book over centuries and even though He was inspiring them, He communicated to them in THEIR terms, just as Jesus gave parables in terms those people understood. Why didn't Jesus use airplanes, super highways, computers and the Internet in His parables?
__________________________________________________ __

IIRC Jesus says he used parables so people wouldn't understand. I've forgotten so much scripture over the years can one of you help find the verse.

JT

Kosh

It just occurred to me after all this time that Peter Seller's "Being There" was actually a subtle slam on Jesus!



"In the garden, there is a time for growing, and a time for dying".

Greg2003

That's an excellent point. I never got that from the movie, but I believe your right. On the other hand, the whole movie could be a prophecy about the comming of George W. Bush.

CX

GMt 13:13, GLk 8:10

brighid

Although your minister friend is correct that the inaccuracy of the Earth’s description isn’t relevant to “salvation” he fails to see the point. The point being that inaccuracy and errors of this type (from an omnipotent God that presumably knows better and CAN definitely relay information accurately) cast doubt on matters more important such as this salvation he speaks of.

If God “inspired” these men over the centuries and during this inspiration He could not prevent inaccurate retelling of His word what else should a reasonable person question? It may seem insignificant to this minister that the chosen men (among many that could have been chosen, perhaps ones with more mental clarity and accurate story retelling abilities) could not get simple facts correctly. If they were unable to determine that the Earth was round (as God surely knew given He is the alleged creator of all the billions of spherical “planets” in this universe), but spoke to these men in FALSE terms (presuming this God disseminated the information incorrectly) what ELSE did these men get wrong?

A perfect, omnipotent God should clearly be able to inspire His chosen men accurately. It would lend credence to the claims of omnipotence and perfection if this God had given accurate information about the Earth, stars, what really happened during the flood, etc. during a time when men had no scientific knowledge of such things. Especially if this God KNEW that centuries later His word would be seen as nothing more then imparted fables of nomadic, goat herders of a time gone by that so closely resemble the religious myths of their predecessors (although evolved) to cast serious doubt onto the accuracy of this books claims.

If God desires the discerning follower, one who is not easily corrupted by false prophets claiming to be the “real” thing wouldn’t He desire a skeptic, one not so easily fooled and led by the proverbial nose ring to whatever easily disproved charlatan that comes on the scene? If God is perfect and omnipotent he COULD NOT impart an imperfect, flawed book as THEE guide to “the way, the truth and the light” and it should be plain as day, even to a simpleton, that anything less CANNOT be from a perfect deity regardless of the imperfect vehicle chosen to relay such information.

This God is allegedly all powerful and capable of making obvious and provable claims of His existence. He either chooses not to and therefore disproves the claims about Him, or He doesn’t actually exist (or a slew of other options none of which jive with the claims set forth thus far.)

This god seems much closer to impotent, rather than omnipotent!

Brighid

Jinto

Perhaps God should talk to His doctor about Viagra.

Kosh

Let's get things straight, this is no joking matter!

Jinto

Yes, it is.